Dems, Dem-lites and Independents, who ya backing at this point and why?
POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:53
VIEWED: 19566
PAGE 9 of 24
Quote:The older demographic has always been a stable factor: how they vote, what they vote for or against, how often they vote, how consistently they can find those mysterious poll booths.
Originally posted by WISHIMAY:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
This is why I don't feel bad for them being the cause of their own prophecy.
Really?? You don't think the older generations have a hand or twelve in making conditions like these??
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6916417/Minnesota-farmers-tea
rful-video-shares-industry-troubles.html
In the last month I've seen stores closing EVERYWHERE, Fred's, Sears, Target, Victoria's Secret, Macy's, JCPenny's, Bed Bath and Beyond... they have no money to spend ANYWHERE.
Between stores closing, low profitability in many lines of work, automation, student loans that aren't worth a damn, overpriced housing and vehicles and healthcare, NO chance at retiring, high cancer rates... they are screwed and it's all our fault.
The young don't always do the intelligent thing, but I can safely say the old have DEFINITELY done the dumb thing over and over and over.
The young are the tipping point. The Rock-The-Vote in 2006 was a celebration. They did it again in 2018.
But the most important thing is that they can still find cash to pay exorbitant prices for the latest handheld media. Who needs cars, homes, jobs? That's all extraneous.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The older demographic has always been a stable factor: how they vote, what they vote for or against, how often they vote, how consistently they can find those mysterious poll booths.
But the most important thing is that they can still find cash to pay exorbitant prices for the latest handheld media. Who needs cars, homes, jobs? That's all extraneous.
That's more of a trope than a reality. Ask a millennial for you to see their phone, you will find half of them have cracked screens, because they don't want to deal or can't afford a new phone. When my kid was in school there were only a couple that had an I-phone, most everyone here has a Walmart phone, and when everything you do requires one....
It's how they get jobs and talk to family and it's how they entertain and inform. If it's only ONE thing that does all that, as annoying as it is, I wouldn't begrudge them.
The problem with "the older demographics" IS that they haven't changed but the way the economy works -the way society works- has completely.
They still want business as usual and are too blind to see the roof is caving in and the foundation is washing away. Boomers need to wake up and see this isn't the 80's anymore. The next 20 years are going to be a painful time of experimentation or a painful time of stagnation, either way.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
His connection to silicon valley? I see that as being easily spun into a negative in a general election.
Booker is the kid of two of the first black IBM execs, just if you didn't know.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/02/cory-bookers-mom-dad-parents/
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
They don't teach drivers ed in school anymore??? Jeez.
No. We had a choice of signing her up for a driving course for $350 where they come to your house and pick them up (and any learners near you) for an hour 5 times and then take driving test, or another licensed driver can fill in a time log sheet until they hit 50 hours of driving instruction and take a driving test. We are doing the latter, and I'm glad of the option because my kid has a distance/spacing perceptual issue that has taken a lot of work to fix. Has almost hit a light pole half a dozen times and drove over several curbs on the passenger side because she has a hard time adjusting from sitting in the passenger seat.
The test to get a permit is seriously harder than anything we did, she spent three months studying, and a lot of kids around here have taken it and failed. When we went to pick out a small truck for her to eventually drive to work or classes (almost non-existant to find a small truck used, btw), the guy at the dealership said his son failed it twice and at 17 still doesn't have a permit and doesn't seem to care to at this point.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I get that you like what Yang has to say about UBI, but - like with Buttigieg - I have questions! I hope you can point me in the direction of answers.
I like what Yang has to say. I already said months ago that I'm voting Democrat in the primaries, even though I'm going to vote for Trump in the General. Right now, Yang has my primary vote.
If it comes to pass that Yang might actually have a chance, it's possible that I would vote for him in the general. That's a long way from now though, and I'm not going to be giving that much thought for a long time.
How does he feel about multi-lateral "free trade" deals that are decided in secret corporate-run trade tribunals?
How does he feel about our endless wars and "regime change" operations? The military/security budget?
What about illegal immigration? Is he one of these nutty Silicon Valley people who welcome/think we can accommodate an endless flood of illegal migrants?
About UBI: Is it expenditure neutral? In other words .... if you take all of the $$ spent on various forms of welfare ... housing subsidies, food stamps, welfare, assistance to the severely disabled ... and lump it all into one sum, would that pay for UBI? Or would more $$ be needed? And, if more $$ is needed, where will it come from? Would UBI eliminate EIC? How would UBI interact with tax breaks for the poor? With state and county aid (which is partially paid for by the Federal government)? Would it be available to the non-citizen? Would retirees receiving Social Security also get UBI? Since this UBI is aimed at adults, what would this do to assistance SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED (though Social Security) and the homeless (who seem to need help above and beyond more money)?
I like the idea of UBI. When one of our nannies ran into financial difficulty, I looked into various forms of assistance for her, but there were SO MANY agencies involved (the city, county, state, and Federal government, schools, county health etc) so many kinds of assistance (direct cash, housing subsidies, food stamps, assisted housing, money for children and families but not adults), so many hoops to jump thru (oddly, aid seems to be more generous for the illegal migrant than for the citizen) that the bean-counting and bureaucratic jumble just seems so difficult to navigate and it's such a fucking waste of time and money that anything would be preferable to what we have now. But I would really like to hear how this would be implemented in more detail.
Very much the same with Medicare for All. When I think about ALL of the money going into medical care ... Medicare, employer-paid premiums, privately-paid premiums, county and state medical assistance, etc etc and I think about the welter of charges, premiums, bean-counting, restrictions, etc etc constructed by the "health insurances" I wonder if Medicare for All might actually be cheaper if paid for by a universal payer (saving the roughly 20% of overhead and profits currently skimmed off by insurances and the roughly 5% spent by hospitals and other provider billing services). But there would have to be a few changes made to Medicare for All: It would have to negotiate better Rx prices (currently prohibited by Medicare Part D) and it would have to scale payments to the cost of living in each region. Also, there would have to be some cost controls and outcome measures ... for example, in one city in Texas, 50% of the ER services went to five or six homeless people who would routinely use the ER as a warm place to stay and to treat their chronic medical conditions which constantly were getting out of hand due to their homelessness and lack of regular care ... so people were showing up in diabetic coma for example, or with diabetic gangrene. So there would have to be special provisions for the homeless, mentally ill and addicted because otherwise they will be a giant money-suck.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How does he feel about multi-lateral "free trade" deals that are decided in secret corporate-run trade tribunals?
How does he feel about our endless wars and "regime change" operations? The military/security budget?
What about illegal immigration? Is he one of these nutty Silicon Valley people who welcome/think we can accommodate an endless flood of illegal migrants?
You know you could google this shit faster than it took to write all that post out, right???
But then, you wouldn't get to remind everyone about your obsessive agendas... AGAIN...
I'll give Yang points for effort. Hipster points.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6919089/Democratic-candidate-
Andrew-Yang-plans-use-3D-HOLOGRAM-campaign.html
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Gee WISHY, what's YOUR obsessive agenda? Constantly attacking people? At least I'm on topic, and trying to have a discussion. That's why I'm asking SIX what he knows. Maybe he'll add an idea or two about how he thinks this could or should work.
Jeez, you're such a byatch.
Seriously, have you ever LISTENED to yourself? Harping on and on about why you're so much better than everyone else?
Don't be surprised if I really do just ignore you from now on.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
About UBI: Is it expenditure neutral? In other words .... if you take all of the $$ spent on various forms of welfare ... housing subsidies, food stamps, welfare, assistance to the severely disabled ... and lump it all into one sum, would that pay for UBI? Or would more $$ be needed? And, if more $$ is needed, where will it come from? Would UBI eliminate EIC? How would UBI interact with tax breaks for the poor? With state and county aid (which is partially paid for by the Federal government)? Would it be available to the non-citizen? Would retirees receiving Social Security also get UBI? Since this UBI is aimed at adults, what would this do to assistance SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED (though Social Security) and the homeless (who seem to need help above and beyond more money)?
It's supposed to be expenditure neutral. Show me a candidate promising anything that is exactly what it's said to be though.
UBI would eliminate EIC. Bad news for single mothers with 3 kids, I suppose, but it's still more than the EIC benefits they'd get. Having 3 kids was their choice, and that's how they'll be spending their UBI.
This is one of the things that I like about UBI. It provides a safety net for everyone who needs it, but it is also given to everyone at the same time. Jeff Bezos would even get it. It's a reward to those who make smart decisions, while still being enough to live on for the completely destitute. What you need to be taking into consideration here as well is that you can still work any job you want, making as much as you can make without being penalized (unlike every form of welfare out there today).
Would more money be needed if all of the other safety nets were eliminated? Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen figures on that or researched it. In 2010, $58 Billion went out for EIC payments. Hardly a dent in the roughly $3 Trillion per year that would be required for a $1,000/mo. UBI for every adult in America.
You bring up some good questions about SSI and SSDI. I don't know the answer to any of them. $1,000/mo. would be more than my brother gets in SSDI, but when combined with his food stamps, it would be less.
First thing I would do is put strong caps on SSI payments for the elderly who don't need it. There's not much that enrages me more than retirees refering to their SSI payments as "casino money". It's one of the big reason's that you'll start hearing the term "boomers" being used as an insult, particularly among milennials.
I would say that if you have under a certain amount of other income and net value, then you either get SSI or just your UBI which would be guaranteed to everyone.
There would be a LOT of things to work out to make sure this worked properly. I just think it would be a lot easier to maintain and update when there is a single system out there for everyone, with maybe a satellite or two for extreme cases such as disabled people who have nobody to care for them.
Oh... and making a rule that the UBI was guaranteed to go up with inflation from the very beginning is a must. We don't need to make the same mistake we did with the minimum wage twice.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
In terms of healthcare I would support government-run single payer full healthcare (including vision, dental, catastrophic and long-term) for all. In the short-term it really would NOT save money, simply because there are still 10% of Americans who aren't covered at all, an unknown population of people with long-term conditions being somewhat managed at home by relatives, and at least 25% of people who are under-insured --- and that leads to a backlog of demand.
But the layers on layers of administrative overhead, the profit cut at every step, and the fact that the US doesn't negotiate drug prices, have lead to extraordinarily expensive yet still deficient health care in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expend
iture_per_capita
wiki 2016 per capita
US 9892
Can 4753
https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u
-s-compare-countries/#item-average-wealthy-countries-spend-half-much-per-person-health-u-s-spends
HST 2017 percent GDP total (public / private)
US 17.3 (8.5 / 8.8)
Can 10.5 (7.4 / 3.1)
A better, more comprehensive, government system would lift the burden from nearly every American (with the exception of the very small percentage who are so wealthy they can pay for every problem themselves). It would halt those chronic healthcare-driven losses from the economy, and allow that work to go somewhere more productive.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Current Civilian noninstitutional Population over age 18 is a little under 249 million. So $1,000 per totals less than $249 Billion per month. About $2.88 Trillion per year. Eliminating $58 B of EIC leaves less than $2.82 T of new spending. So the 150 million Employed will only need to have an average $19,000 additionally confiscated per year - meaning taxes. Or $1,580 per month.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
About UBI: Is it expenditure neutral? In other words .... if you take all of the $$ spent on various forms of welfare ... housing subsidies, food stamps, welfare, assistance to the severely disabled ... and lump it all into one sum, would that pay for UBI? Or would more $$ be needed? And, if more $$ is needed, where will it come from? Would UBI eliminate EIC? How would UBI interact with tax breaks for the poor? With state and county aid (which is partially paid for by the Federal government)? Would it be available to the non-citizen? Would retirees receiving Social Security also get UBI? Since this UBI is aimed at adults, what would this do to assistance SPECIFICALLY AIMED AT CHILDREN AND THE DISABLED (though Social Security) and the homeless (who seem to need help above and beyond more money)?
It's supposed to be expenditure neutral. Show me a candidate promising anything that is exactly what it's said to be though.
UBI would eliminate EIC. Bad news for single mothers with 3 kids, I suppose, but it's still more than the EIC benefits they'd get. Having 3 kids was their choice, and that's how they'll be spending their UBI.
This is one of the things that I like about UBI. It provides a safety net for everyone who needs it, but it is also given to everyone at the same time. Jeff Bezos would even get it. It's a reward to those who make smart decisions, while still being enough to live on for the completely destitute. What you need to be taking into consideration here as well is that you can still work any job you want, making as much as you can make without being penalized (unlike every form of welfare out there today).
Would more money be needed if all of the other safety nets were eliminated? Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen figures on that or researched it. In 2010, $58 Billion went out for EIC payments. Hardly a dent in the roughly $3 Trillion per year that would be required for a $1,000/mo. UBI for every adult in America.
You bring up some good questions about SSI and SSDI. I don't know the answer to any of them. $1,000/mo. would be more than my brother gets in SSDI, but when combined with his food stamps, it would be less.
First thing I would do is put strong caps on SSI payments for the elderly who don't need it. There's not much that enrages me more than retirees refering to their SSI payments as "casino money". It's one of the big reason's that you'll start hearing the term "boomers" being used as an insult, particularly among milennials.
I would say that if you have under a certain amount of other income and net value, then you either get SSI or just your UBI which would be guaranteed to everyone.
There would be a LOT of things to work out to make sure this worked properly. I just think it would be a lot easier to maintain and update when there is a single system out there for everyone, with maybe a satellite or two for extreme cases such as disabled people who have nobody to care for them.
Oh... and making a rule that the UBI was guaranteed to go up with inflation from the very beginning is a must. We don't need to make the same mistake we did with the minimum wage twice.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Great Ponzi plan. Almost as good as Social Security.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME