Real World Event Discussions
So.... About this "Caravan"
POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Friday, November 8, 2024 16:11
VIEWED: 30674
PAGE 9 of 35
Wednesday, October 31, 2018 11:29 PM
Quote:You are repeating what Trump said.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Bullshit, and you know it.
All your ideas require 3/4 of the States ...- SECOND
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-citizenship-trump/trump-con
tends-u-s-constitution-does-not-cover-birthright-citizenship-idUSKCN1N51YL
But Trump and his spokesmen are bullshitting you.
www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/10/30/donald-trump-birthrigh
t-citizenship-constitution-14th-amendment/1818311002/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Wednesday, October 31, 2018 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That's right. As Fox News report on Tuesday showed, immigrants traveling with the caravan are being loaded on to chartered buses and transported to the next stop on the trail to the US, having refused Mexico's offer of asylum, shelter and jobs... - Fox News reporter Griff Jenkins revealed that multiple professional buses have lined up to board the migrants, as footage from the report showed.
Fox Nooz also said they had small pox - not exactly a source that can be trusted.
Why would any Democrat/Soros/Liberal Boogey person want to hurry these immigrants to the border before the election? How does that serve Dem politics?
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:09 AM
Quote:That was already addressed. Please re-read previous post.
Why would any Democrat/Soros/Liberal Boogey person want to hurry these immigrants to the border before the election? How does that serve Dem politics?
Now, I'm not sure which party this "caravan" serves best. The Dem base is about as fired up as it can be; but the Repub base - which might not be as "fired up" as Dems - might actually be activated by this issue.
The most effect would be on that very large group that isn't registered with either Dems or Repubs. They're called "independents" but because here in CA we have an "Independent" party we call them "no party preference". Generally speaking, that middle group leans right rather than left, but with effective advertising/ propaganda the caravan issue MIGHT be turned in favor of Dems.
******
Just a couple of comments: GSTRING, you're all spittle-y about Dems not being for "open borders". For the sake or argument, let me grant that Dems are, in theory, for border control. However, if they're against ENFORCING border control and immigration laws ... they don't want to "apprehend" illegal immigrants, they don't want to differentiate between illegal immigrants and citizens for government benefits, they don't believe in deporting illegal immigrants, and they want to "abolish ICE" ... then, in effect, they ARE for "open borders".
It's a little like SECOND's blast of "brilliance" on using our tax laws to apprehend employers who illegally categorize employees as "contractors". Or using our laws - which demand valid Social Security numbers - for each employee. Yes, our laws could be improved, but the biggest problem with our immigration laws is lack of enforcement.
*****
I think it's interesting that the same issue that is driving Merkel out of power and causing the EU to fray ... and possibly to even break up ... is the same issue that's driving a wedge between Democrats and Republicans, and that is IMMIGRATION. A recent study has "upped" the estimate of illegal immigrants in the USA from 12 to 22 million. That is the level which is causing significant social and economic disruption in European nations, there's no reason to think that it isn't a problem here too. Like the EU, some states here are far more affected than others.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 1:40 AM
Quote:Why are you opposed to the 14t
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump Plans To End Birthright Citizenship For Children Of Illegal Immigrants: Axios
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-30/trump-plans-end-birthright-c
itizenship-children-illegal-immigrants-axiosQuote:So, the USA government was "mis-interpreting" the 14th Amendment for about a hundred years???
In a report based on an interview with Axios set to air on its new show, "Axios on HBO," the organization's reporter said such an order would be "the most dramatic move yet" in Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration, targeting so-called "anchor babies." It will almost certainly set off another stand-off with the courts, as Trump's authority to impose such a change via executive order is up for debate.
Trump said in an interview that he has run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed with the highly controversial move, which certainly will face legal challenges.
"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump said, declaring he can do it by executive order.
When told says that's very much in dispute, Trump replied: "You can definitely do it with an Act of Congress. But now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order."
"We're the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits," Trump continued. "It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And it has to end."
"It's in the process. It'll happen ... with an executive order."
* * *
Trump said he was surprised that Axios had caught wind of his plan.
"I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one. "
Axios later clarified that it had been working to confirm the story for weeks before the interview.
While any attempt to remove birthright citizenship would undoubtedly set off a constitutional challenge...
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
...Legal scholars are divided on the subject.
John Eastman, a constitutional scholar and director of Chapman University's Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence, told "Axios on HBO" that the Constitution has been misapplied over the past 40 or so years. He says the line "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" originally referred to people with full, political allegiance to the U.S. - green card holders and citizens.
Adding weight to Trump's argument, birthright citizenship wasn't applied to the children of immigrants until the 1960s...Quote:Well, time for a ruling, I guess! Altho I suspect that if Trump attempts this thru an Executive Order, any ruling would probably be about the procedure and not about this issue.
Between 1980 and 2006, the number of births to unauthorized immigrants - which opponents of birthright citizenship call "anchor babies" - skyrocketed to a peak of 370,000, according to a 2016 study by Pew Research. It then declined slightly during and following the Great Recession.
The Supreme Court has already ruled that children born to immigrants who are legal permanent residents have citizenship. But those who claim the 14th Amendment should not apply to everyone point to the fact that there has been no ruling on a case specifically involving undocumented immigrants or those with temporary legal status.Quote:
Axios' four-part documentary news series will debut on HBO this Sunday at 6:30 pm.
Watch a clip from Axios' interview with Trump below:
GO FOR IT, MR TRUMP!
The worst that can happen is that your EO gets stalled in court.
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:04 AM
Quote:Enforcement is all Trump's job. It can't be blamed on the Democratic voters, or the Democrats in Congress, or the Democrats who are judges. It is all Trump's fault that those 11 to 22,000,000 illegal aliens have not been arrested. I'm pretty sure Trump will still have 11 to 22,000,000 illegal aliens needing to be arrested when he leaves office because he has NOT made any plans to arrest them. If he even realized he needed a plan, he'd be bragging about what a great plan it is, the best plan in history, but he hasn't even got around to bragging about his non-existent plan.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's a little like SECOND's blast of "brilliance" on using our tax laws to apprehend employers who illegally categorize employees as "contractors". Or using our laws - which demand valid Social Security numbers - for each employee. Yes, our laws could be improved, but the biggest problem with our immigration laws is lack of enforcement.
A recent study has "upped" the estimate of illegal immigrants in the USA from 12 to 22 million.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 3:21 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
That was already addressed. Please re-read previous post.
Um, no - you're last post was, "Bullshit, and you know it." Scrolling up you didn't post anything to address those questions either, so nothing on this page.
Try again? "Why would any Democrat/Soros/Liberal Boogey person want to hurry these immigrants to the border before the election? How does that serve Dem politics?"
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 5:59 AM
Quote:Enforcement is ANY President's job. Our immigration laws have been so poorly enforced that Reagan had to cave in and offer amnesty. Now, when Trump TRIES to enforce the laws, sanctuary states/ liberaloids bitch and whine about it. Just look at GSTRING.
Enforcement is all Trump's job.- SECOND
Quote:Bullshit, and you know it. I posted five separate ideas. At least three of them are within Trump's authority. You're turning into as big a liar as GSTRING.
All your ideas require 3/4 of the States ...- SECOND
Bullshit, and you know it.- SECOND
You are repeating what Trump said. - SECOND
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 6:01 AM
Quote:
That was already addressed. Please re-read previous post. - SIGNY
Um, no - you're last post was, "Bullshit, and you know it." Scrolling up you didn't post anything to address those questions either, so nothing on this page.
Try again? "Why would any Democrat/Soros/Liberal Boogey person want to hurry these immigrants to the border before the election? How does that serve Dem politics?"- GSTRING
You don't read well:
Quote:
But as it turns out, the organizations that have been aiding the caravan since it first formed in Honduras nearly three weeks ago have already accounted for this. And to help ensure that images of border patrol agents arresting families and separating small children from their parents are flashing across cable news in the days and hours before the polls open, these groups are employing a new tactic: Busing.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 6:25 AM
“Not everything that stinks is caca, Mija!”
? Efrat Cybulkiewicz
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Trump Plans To End Birthright Citizenship For Children Of Illegal Immigrants: Axios
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-30/trump-plans-end-birthright-c
itizenship-children-illegal-immigrants-axiosQuote:So, the USA government was "mis-interpreting" the 14th Amendment for about a hundred years???
In a report based on an interview with Axios set to air on its new show, "Axios on HBO," the organization's reporter said such an order would be "the most dramatic move yet" in Trump's crackdown on illegal immigration, targeting so-called "anchor babies." It will almost certainly set off another stand-off with the courts, as Trump's authority to impose such a change via executive order is up for debate.
Trump said in an interview that he has run the idea of ending birthright citizenship by his counsel and plans to proceed with the highly controversial move, which certainly will face legal challenges.
"It was always told to me that you needed a constitutional amendment. Guess what? You don't," Trump said, declaring he can do it by executive order.
When told says that's very much in dispute, Trump replied: "You can definitely do it with an Act of Congress. But now they're saying I can do it just with an executive order."
"We're the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States ... with all of those benefits," Trump continued. "It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. And it has to end."
"It's in the process. It'll happen ... with an executive order."
* * *
Trump said he was surprised that Axios had caught wind of his plan.
"I didn't think anybody knew that but me. I thought I was the only one. "
Axios later clarified that it had been working to confirm the story for weeks before the interview.
While any attempt to remove birthright citizenship would undoubtedly set off a constitutional challenge...
"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
...Legal scholars are divided on the subject.
John Eastman, a constitutional scholar and director of Chapman University's Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence, told "Axios on HBO" that the Constitution has been misapplied over the past 40 or so years. He says the line "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" originally referred to people with full, political allegiance to the U.S. - green card holders and citizens.
Adding weight to Trump's argument, birthright citizenship wasn't applied to the children of immigrants until the 1960s...Quote:Well, time for a ruling, I guess! Altho I suspect that if Trump attempts this thru an Executive Order, any ruling would probably be about the procedure and not about this issue.
Between 1980 and 2006, the number of births to unauthorized immigrants - which opponents of birthright citizenship call "anchor babies" - skyrocketed to a peak of 370,000, according to a 2016 study by Pew Research. It then declined slightly during and following the Great Recession.
The Supreme Court has already ruled that children born to immigrants who are legal permanent residents have citizenship. But those who claim the 14th Amendment should not apply to everyone point to the fact that there has been no ruling on a case specifically involving undocumented immigrants or those with temporary legal status.Quote:
Axios' four-part documentary news series will debut on HBO this Sunday at 6:30 pm.
Watch a clip from Axios' interview with Trump below:
GO FOR IT, MR TRUMP!
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Thursday, November 1, 2018 8:40 AM
Quote:Signym, I think you and I could come up with some theories to explain why Obama did not deport those 11 to 22 million illegal aliens that are bothering you. Maybe Obama doesn't like you. But what is the explanation for Trump not deporting them, since illegal aliens are his bête noire? One possibility: he isn't ever going to do it. It is something he says only to get Signym's vote.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Enforcement is ANY President's job. Our immigration laws have been so poorly enforced that Reagan had to cave in and offer amnesty. Now, when Trump TRIES to enforce the laws, sanctuary states/ liberaloids bitch and whine about it. Just look at GSTRING.
Enforcement is all Trump's job.- SECONDQuote:Bullshit, and you know it. I posted five separate ideas. At least three of them are within Trump's authority. You're turning into as big a liar as GSTRING.
All your ideas require 3/4 of the States ...- SECOND
Bullshit, and you know it.- SECOND
You are repeating what Trump said. - SECOND
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
Trump himself didn’t even bring up the subject of birthright citizenship. It turns out that Jonathan Swan of Axios was interviewing Trump and decided to bring up the subject out of nowhere. Why? God knows. But after Trump blathered about it for a bit without actually committing to anything, Swan asked when it would happen. “It’s in the process,” Trump said. “It’ll happen.”
Everyone on the planet knows that this is Trumpspeak for “No one is working on it and I haven’t thought about it for a long time.”
But it didn’t matter. Nor did it matter that everyone knows Trump can’t overturn birthright citizenship with an executive order anyway. Signym jumps on the idea as exactly what is needed to MAGA.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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