A thread for Democrats Only

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1KIKI

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 2:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JJ:
Russian elites met with NRA in lead-up to 2016 election

Prominent Russians were in contact with the National Rifle Association (NRA) during the lead-up to the 2016 election, McClatchy reported.

The Russians who met with NRA representatives during the 2016 presidential campaign included members of President Vladimir Putin's inner circle as well as the Russian Orthodox Church, according to the news outlet. Reportedly among the individuals identified are the former deputy prime minister overseeing Russia's defense industry, Dmitry Rogozin, and Sergei Rudov, the leader of the St. Basil the Great Charitable Foundation - one of Russia's largest philanthropies.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/russian-elites-met-with-nra-in
-lead-up-to-2016-election-report/ar-AAyvdI1

former deputy ministers!! The Russian Orthodox Church!!! One of Russia's largest philanthropies!!!! They're coming after us!!! SANCTIONS!!!! We need TOTAL SANCTIONS against these Russians!!!

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 2:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I couldn't help but notice that SECONAL STILL ignored Jacks' post:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
We already had Norm and Norma. Only their names were Barack and Michelle. Unlike Signy's take on Norm and Norma, I don't think that they have mush for brains at all. On the contrary, I think that people that are as polished as that are likely as intelligent as they are dangerous. Who doesn't love somebody who always says exactly what everyone wants to hear?

I'll admit that Second's segue there wasn't as annoying as his usual segue, and the insults were rather muted. It still didn't address the actual post I made though because he knows that I'm right.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

And that's because ...

SECONAL is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

You'll notice the one post I keep referring to he hasn't even touched. In fact, it might be the single post I've seen from anyone that he hasn't quoted a single line of to begin one of his 10 paragraph segways into something completely different.

And that's because.....

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 12:46 PM

I'm still trying to figure this one out

Quote:
Americans just didn’t like the Vietnamese enough to do what was necessary to win - SECOND

What does "liking" have to do with "winning"? SECOND? Care to explain?

Quote:
Who doesn't love somebody who always says exactly what everyone wants to hear?- SIX

<<< THIS

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm still trying to figure this one out
Quote:
Americans just didn’t like the Vietnamese enough to do what was necessary to win - SECOND
What does "liking" have to do with "winning"? SECOND? Care to explain?

Quote:
Who doesn't love somebody who always says exactly what everyone wants to hear?- SIX
<<< THIS

I have finally learned enough about second to understand that he doesn't have a clue about what was wrong with the Vietnam War, or why LBJ insisted upon losing it.
To be fair, I have been ignoring second alot lately.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 1:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm still trying to figure this one out
Quote:
Americans just didn’t like the Vietnamese enough to do what was necessary to win - SECOND
What does "liking" have to do with "winning"? SECOND? Care to explain?

I'm assuming he means that we as a nation did not care enough about the Vietnamese to keep throwing our sons over there to die until the Vietnamese we were supposed to care about ran out of bullets.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

1KIKI

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 6:00 PM

I'm assuming we didn't 'like' the Vietnamese enough to keep bombing and poisoning them into oblivion. Does anyone beside me remember 'body counts', which was our measure of success in Vietnam?

SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, June 12, 2018 6:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm assuming we didn't 'like' the Vietnamese enough to keep bombing and poisoning them into oblivion. Does anyone beside me remember 'body counts', which was our measure of success in Vietnam?

Yup.., that too.

Lots of reasons why his comparison of Vietnam to the Civil War is pretty crazy.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SIGNYM

Wednesday, June 13, 2018 12:29 PM

SECOND .... I'm still vastly confused by your statement, which seems to conflate "liking" with "winning". I'm sure you have an explanation that makes sense, since you seem to have derived lessons from your Vietnam experience which have stood up to decades-worth of experience.

So, at least one of us is confused. Help me out here and tell me what you meant.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

SECOND

Wednesday, June 13, 2018 4:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND .... I'm still vastly confused by your statement, which seems to conflate "liking" with "winning". I'm sure you have an explanation that makes sense, since you seem to have derived lessons from your Vietnam experience which have stood up to decades-worth of experience.

So, at least one of us is confused. Help me out here and tell me what you meant.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.

America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876

It is the fundamental problem with language. Only telepathy will do what I need in as few words as I'm willing to use. Since Signym is not telepathic, the following probably won't clear up anything, either, but let me just say that a lot of soldiers (not all draftees, obviously, or the war would have been even crazier than it was) who went to Vietnam after 1970 were resentful that they were even there. They took out their resentment on the people who idealists like me were fighting for. They resented the South Vietnamese. That is a crazy way to fight: resenting the people you are there to defend. I, second, can't win all by myself when most of the people around me and most of those back in the USA don't think the war is worth fighting. Nuke all of Vietnam, North and South, declare victory and go home, was the best imaginable strategy for the resentful soldiers. Now imagine jumping forward in time by 40 years. A majority of Americans today live as if they are crazy with resentment. I've got an article on that subject:

Trump Takes the Politics of Resentment to the Global Stage
by Nancy LeTourneau, June 12, 2018

Jeffrey Goldberg went in search of the “Trump Doctrine” on foreign affairs. Here is the description that struck him as the best distillation:

I was talking to this person several weeks ago, and I said, by way of introduction, that I thought it might perhaps be too early to discern a definitive Trump Doctrine.

“No,” the official said. “There’s definitely a Trump Doctrine.”

“What is it?” I asked. Here is the answer I received:

“The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

It struck me almost immediately that this was the most acute, and attitudinally honest, description of the manner in which members of Trump’s team, and Trump himself, understand their role in the world…

“We’re America, Bitch” is not only a characterologically accurate collective self-appraisal—the gangster fronting, the casual misogyny, the insupportable confidence—but it is also perfectly Rorschachian. To Trump’s followers, “We’re America, Bitch” could be understood as a middle finger directed at a cold and unfair world, one that no longer respects American power and privilege.

What Goldberg just did is provide a perfect example of the politics of resentment, which is what attracted Trump supporters to him in the first place. Josh Marshall explained it this way:

People continue to marvel how a city-bred, godless libertine who was born to great wealth could become and remain the political avatar of small town and rural voters of middling means. The answer is simple. Despite all their differences, Trump meets his voters in a common perception (real or not) of being shunned, ignored and disrespected by ‘elites’. In short, his politics and his connection with his core voters is based on grievance. This is a profound and enduring connection.

The president and his supporters aren’t just raising their middle finger to American “elites,” they’re doing it to pretty much the entire globe. Jay Bookman described the politics of resentment as “a bone-deep cultural resentment that probably does not originate in politics, but that finds its outlet and expression in politics.” Another person Goldberg talked t

1KIKI

Wednesday, June 13, 2018 5:26 PM

Quote:

Trump Takes the Politics of Resentment to the Global Stage
by Nancy LeTourneau, June 12, 2018

Jeffrey Goldberg went in search of the “Trump Doctrine” on foreign affairs. Here is the description that struck him as the best distillation: I was talking to this person several weeks ago, and I said, by way of introduction, that I thought it might perhaps be too early to discern a definitive Trump Doctrine.
“No,” the official said. “There’s definitely a Trump Doctrine.”
“What is it?” I asked. Here is the answer I received:
“The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”

It struck me almost immediately that this was the most acute, and attitudinally honest, description of the manner in which members of Trump’s team, and Trump himself, understand their role in the world…

“We’re America, Bitch” is not only a characterologically accurate collective self-appraisal—the gangster fronting, the casual misogyny, the insupportable confidence—but it is also perfectly Rorschachian. To Trump’s followers, “We’re America, Bitch” could be understood as a middle finger directed at a cold and unfair world, one that no longer respects American power and privilege. Or apparently the jobs, sustenance, health and lives of the average American.

What Goldberg just did is provide a perfect example of the politics of resentment, which is what attracted Trump supporters to him in the first place. Josh Marshall explained it this way:

People continue to marvel how a city-bred, godless libertine who was born to great wealth could become and remain the political avatar of small town and rural voters of middling means. The answer is simple. Despite all their differences, Trump meets his voters in a common perception (real or not) of being shunned, ignored and disrespected by ‘elites’. In short, his politics and his connection with his core voters is based on grievance. This is a profound and enduring connection. Why is there no analysis as to whether or not the average American has vital, life-altering things to be aggrieved about? OH! THAT'S RIGHT! We're just supposed to ASSUME these perceptions are not real, because they've been rhetorically dismissed.

The president and his supporters aren’t just raising their middle finger to American “elites,” they’re doing it to pretty much the entire globe. Jay Bookman described the politics of resentment as “a bone-deep cultural resentment that probably does not originate in politics, but that finds its outlet and expression in politics.” God forbid anyone examine the economics of this 'resentment'.

Another person Goldberg talked to described the Trump Doctrine this way:
“People criticize [Trump] for being opposed to everything Obama did, but we’re justified in canceling out his policies,” one friend of Trump’s told me. This friend described the Trump Doctrine in the simplest way possible. “There’s the Obama Doctrine, and the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine,” he said. “We’re the ‘Fuck Obama’ Doctrine.”
Yes, people are dying younger to spite Obama.

There is a bone-deep resentment that Donald Trump shares with his supporters and Barack Obama symbolizes everything they resent: a well-educated successful black man with the middle name “Hussein” who held the most powerful office in the world. Because, the whole no good jobs situation ... it's not really a factor. As Andrew Breitbart famously said, “politics is downstream from culture.” As Bill Clinton famously said, "it's the economy, stupid". That is the origin of the resentment that is finding it’s expression not just in domestic politics

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