A thread for Democrats Only

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
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Nice Gish Gallop, Siggy...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Salesmen have YUGE social filters. They don't blurt out whatever pops into their head at the moment ... Hey, you're black! Do you suppose I can sell you a nice Cadillac that you can't afford??? So you either need to credit Trump with more forethought, or give up on the idea of him lying.

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Are you sure he hasn't said that? I wouldn't be surprised. You still get, or are just too busy defending Trump, that he's a well trained sales person. You not seeing it is indicative of just how good he is. Your persona on this board, like Trump's in RL, is very transparent to most of us though.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
How do you know? If he had said sadly, I had no other choice but to cancel the summit would that have been more acceptable to you?

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Nope.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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"Not surprisingly, the GREAT Men & Women of the FBI are starting to speak out against Comey, McCabe and all of the political corruption and poor leadership found within the top ranks of the FBI. Comey was a terrible and corrupt leader who inflicted great pain on the FBI! "

They are? Who? Cites for anything in that statement? 2, 3, 5 lies in that one tweet?

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How do you know whether they are or they aren't? I have read stories that FBI agents are quietly asking to be subpoenaed because if they come forward as whistleblowers they're hosed, but if they're subpoenaed they're safe. So possibly a true statement, we just don't know.

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Nope - another lie by over statement and unverifiable assumption plus throw in a double serving of trying to take back his statements about how bad the FBI was with a hong compliment. A 5 year old can see it - why can't you?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There was spying ON the Trump campaign.

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So every time the FBI questions or investigates someone one it's "spying?" Not surprising you have adopted their slanted language.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM: Halpern was paid a million dollars.

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Mark Halperin? The journalist who (conveniently) has been black balled for sexual misconduct? I haven't been able to find any links for that... do you have any cites?

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If the spook agencies were spying on a candidate and President, concocting dirt and leaking half-truths for political purposes, that WOULD be a YUGE political scandal in American history. Not sure if "the biggest" but certainly worse than Watergate.

See?

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Worse than having a candidate elected through interference by a foreign adversary? See? Not even close. Keep dancing Francis. As T is fond of saying, tick tock...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Frankly, I don't pay all that much attention what what Trump SAYS. Like with ALL politicians I've learned that it is much more important to look at what they DO.

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Good question: what does he DO?

Speaking of what he says:
"One of my teachers at Columbia was Joseph Brodsky...and he said 'look,' he said, 'you Americans, you are so naïve. You think evil is going to come into your houses wearing big black boots. It doesn’t come like that. Look at the language. It begins in the language." -- Marie Howe"

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Nice Gish Gallop, Siggy... - CC

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Merely responding to your post.

Salesmen have YUGE social filters. They don't blurt out whatever pops into their head at the moment ... Hey, you're black! Do you suppose I can sell you a nice Cadillac that you can't afford??? So you either need to credit Trump with more forethought, or give up on the idea of him lying. - SIGNY

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Are you sure he hasn't said that? - CC

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Did your brain break? TRUMP might have said that, but a SALESMAN wouldn't because it wouldn't result in a sale. So either you can't figure out what I said or you can't figure out what YOU said.

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How do you know? If he had said sadly, I had no other choice but to cancel the summit would that have been more acceptable to you? - SIGNY

Nope.- CC

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Why not? What WOULD be acceptable to you? An explanation that fits YOUR idea of the situation? And based on what? Your "detailed knowledge" of behind-the-scenes events? HA!

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"Not surprisingly, the GREAT Men & Women of the FBI are starting to speak out against Comey, McCabe and all of the political corruption and poor leadership found within the top ranks of the FBI. Comey was a terrible and corrupt leader who inflicted great pain on the FBI! "
They are? Who? Cites for anything in that statement? 2, 3, 5 lies in that one tweet? - CC

How do you know whether they are or they aren't? I have read stories that FBI agents are quietly asking to be subpoenaed because if they come forward as whistleblowers they're hosed, but if they're subpoenaed they're safe. So possibly a true statement, we just don't know. - SIGNY

Nope - another lie by over statement and unverifiable assumption plus throw in a double serving of trying to take back his statements about how bad the FBI was with a hong compliment. A 5 year old can see it - why can't you?

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Because there's some evidence that it's a true statement (from sources other than Trump) and no evidence that it's a "lie". Basically, you decided it was a "lie" because ... well, you hate Trump so ANYthing he says is a "lie", according to you. Based, once again, on your complete lack of knowledge, and your persistent bias against Trump.

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There was spying ON the Trump campaign. -SIGNY

So every time the FBI questions or investigates someone one it's "spying?" Not surprising you have adopted their slanted language.- CC

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No. An "investigation" can include looking at documents, looking at physical evidence, and taking testimony, USUALLY IN THE OPEN, but once it consists primarily of secret surveillance then, yes, that's "spying". Because secret surveillance by another name is "spying". Look up any definition of "spying" that you want.

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Halpern was paid a million dollars. - SIGNY
Mark Halperin? The journalist who (conveniently) has been black balled for sexual misconduct? I haven't been able to find any links for that... do you have any cites?- CC

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Sorry, "Halper". Look it up. He was paid a million dollars.

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If the spook agencies were spying on a candidate and President, concocting dirt and leaking half-truths for political purposes, that WOULD be a YUGE political scandal in American history. Not sure if "the biggest" but certainly worse than Watergate. See? - SIGNY

Worse than having a candidate elected through interference by a foreign adversary? See? - GSTRING

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Even the intelligence agencies have concluded that altho the Russians "meddled" in the campaign (and they rest that charge partly on the totally unfounded accusation that Russians gave Assange the Podesta emails) that it didn't affect the outcome of the election. See?

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Not even close.

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Perfectly spot-on, for me.

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Frankly, I don't pay all that much attention what what Trump SAYS. Like with ALL politicians I've le

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1KIKI

Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:26 AM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Funny you should ask, I even started a thread with that question to get past your ridiculous idee fixe about RUSSIA! and towards what Trump has DONE/as opposed to what he SAYS (TRUMP: Good, bad, ugly) but apparently you weren't too interested in thinking about it, you were waaay too focused on "golden showers"!

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http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61325&p=2

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
He got us out of TPP and TTIP, NAFTA is stalled in the water.

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good

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He has instituted tariffs on steel and aluminum.

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It's a good thing to try, but it needs to be seen if it pans out.

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Despite his belligerent statements about Iran and Syria and missile firings on irrelevant Syria installations he has quietly withdrawn funding (and interdicted funding sources) from various CIA ops in the Mideast including the so-called "white Helmets" and "moderate rebels" and the opium trail thru Pakistan.

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"missile firings on irrelevant Syria installations" He seems to have handed over the reins and expense to Israel. Yanno, making our allies pay their way.
Due to this change in lineup, Russia seems to have moderated its response, not responding except to direct attacks on Russian positions, and sometimes, not even then. Russia agreed to not deploy its T400 systems. Perhaps that was a mutual decision, to avoid escalation.

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He may be about to develop a breakthrough negotiation with DPRK.

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That would be nice, though in my opinion, temporary. Kim and Trump seem to have the exact same style: "not agreement capable".

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He moved the American embassy to Jerusalem ...

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terrible

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And broke the nuclear deal with Iran.

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part of his irrational anti-Iran mania ... but remains to be seen

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He is SERIOUS about getting illegals out of the USA and keeping them out.

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good

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He signed a big tax cut for corporations.

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like they're not rich enough

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And he's getting the EU so pissed off at us about Russian and Iran sanctions and tariffs on EU steel that he might make THEM quit US, rather than us quitting them, because (according to his statements) NATO is an irrelevant money-suck that only benefits Europe.

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NATO is irrelevant, except as a useless piece of bureaucracy struggling to keep itself alive

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SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).

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I brought this from the other thread, which I posted more than a year ago (Feb 2017). Much of this was drawn from Trump's openly stated positions, so there was no secret what Trump wanted to do, and where I agreed or disagreed with his positions. Overall Trump is doing ... or trying to do ... what he said he would. Except that he got caught up in a war with the deep state, since they've done everything to torpedo his administration. And my opinion of his positions remains pretty much the same, unless he pulls some big ginormous rabbits out of his hat, in which case my opinion of him will change.

Seeing as he is mostly heading in the directions he said he would BEFORE he was elected, I don't think I would characterize him as being a "liar".

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So, how is Trump doing on the three things that I thought were so important that they outweighed the fact that Trump would be a loose cannon ... something that I mentioned frequently BEFORE the election?

1) FREE TRADE
Two backed out of (TPP, TTIP) two more (NAFTA, CAFTA) to go. The WTO might be too big to tackle. The quality of Trump's "bilateral" deals has yet to be demonstrated.

2) MAKE NICE WITH RUSSIA
Trump is getting a lot of pushback from neocons in both parties. No progress in this area.

3) ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION
So far, I've been very pleased with Trump's temporary pause on visas from seven war-torn, terrorist-burdened nations, plus his "surge" of raids and deportations. People who are in this country illegally shouldn't expect ICE to ignore the law on their behalf, and if they get swept up because they were in the company of drug-runners, gangbangers, and murderers ... oh well, maybe people will start being a little more careful about the company that they keep.

Things I KNEW I was going to be against
1) ENVIRONMENT AND ENERGY
However, by withdrawing from TPP and TTIP, the venue for disagreement is in the US courts and Congress, not secret tribunals in Brussels or Singapore. Different states can adopt different policies, and (strangely) it may be the liberal states arguing about "states' rights", which I find to be a positive development.

Things I suspected I might be against
1) REGULATORY POLICIES
Yes, I know that businesses - especially small businesses - face a welter of regulations. However, businesses have proven to be incapable of regulating themselves. There's a reason why regulatory agencies came into being in the first place. We all know what we want out of businesses: don't sell us contaminated products, don't shit up the environment, don't brutalize your workers. Why can't we simplify?

2) TAX POLICIES
I have no idea what will come out of the Trump administration. Our tax laws desperately need reform, but I doubt that Trump's reforms would match mine.

3) CHINA AND IRAN
Unnecessarily confrontational, militarily. China is an economic adversary, not a military one. Iran isn't our enemy at all, it's Saudi Arabia's - but who the heck cares?

Things I suspected I might be for

1) BORDER TAX
However, there will be a lot of pushback from out "trading partners" involving possibly the WTO
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-13/biggest-case-wto-history-euro
pe-prepares-legal-challenge-against-trump-border-tax
so it may have to be framed as a Value Added Tax reform, to make our taxes more like other nations and to level the playing field.

Issues that are complete unknowns:
1) OBAMACARE
Obamacare needs to be replaced, but it depends on with what. If Trump makes the government negotiate for best drug prices, he will do more to save Medicare than all of the liberal hand-wringing. It would also help Obamacare be more cost-effective. But what comes out is unpredictable.

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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American po

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Quote:

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

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Nice Gish Gallop, Siggy... - CC

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Merely responding to your post.

Salesmen have YUGE social filters. They don't blurt out whatever pops into their head at the moment ... Hey, you're black! Do you suppose I can sell you a nice Cadillac that you can't afford??? So you either need to credit Trump with more forethought, or give up on the idea of him lying. - SIGNY

Quote:

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Are you sure he hasn't said that? - CC

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Did your brain break? TRUMP might have said that, but a SALESMAN wouldn't because it wouldn't result in a sale. So either you can't figure out what I said or you can't figure out what YOU said.

Quote:

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How do you know? If he had said sadly, I had no other choice but to cancel the summit would that have been more acceptable to you? - SIGNY

Nope.- CC

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Why not? What WOULD be acceptable to you? An explanation that fits YOUR idea of the situation? And based on what? Your "detailed knowledge" of behind-the-scenes events? HA!

Quote:

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"Not surprisingly, the GREAT Men & Women of the FBI are starting to speak out against Comey, McCabe and all of the political corruption and poor leadership found within the top ranks of the FBI. Comey was a terrible and corrupt leader who inflicted great pain on the FBI! "
They are? Who? Cites for anything in that statement? 2, 3, 5 lies in that one tweet? - CC

How do you know whether they are or they aren't? I have read stories that FBI agents are quietly asking to be subpoenaed because if they come forward as whistleblowers they're hosed, but if they're subpoenaed they're safe. So possibly a true statement, we just don't know. - SIGNY

Nope - another lie by over statement and unverifiable assumption plus throw in a double serving of trying to take back his statements about how bad the FBI was with a hong compliment. A 5 year old can see it - why can't you?

---

Because there's some evidence that it's a true statement (from sources other than Trump) and no evidence that it's a "lie". Basically, you decided it was a "lie" because ... well, you hate Trump so ANYthing he says is a "lie", according to you. Based, once again, on your complete lack of knowledge, and your persistent bias against Trump.

Quote:

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There was spying ON the Trump campaign. -SIGNY

So every time the FBI questions or investigates someone one it's "spying?" Not surprising you have adopted their slanted language.- CC

---

No. An "investigation" can include looking at documents, looking at physical evidence, and taking testimony, USUALLY IN THE OPEN, but once it consists primarily of secret surveillance then, yes, that's "spying". Because secret surveillance by another name is "spying". Look up any definition of "spying" that you want.

Quote:

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Halpern was paid a million dollars. - SIGNY
Mark Halperin? The journalist who (conveniently) has been black balled for sexual misconduct? I haven't been able to find any links for that... do you have any cites?- CC

---

Sorry, "Halper". Look it up. He was paid a million dollars.

Quote:

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If the spook agencies were spying on a candidate and President, concocting dirt and leaking half-truths for political purposes, that WOULD be a YUGE political scandal in American history. Not sure if "the biggest" but certainly worse than Watergate. See? - SIGNY

Worse than having a candidate elected through interference by a foreign adversary? See? - GSTRING

---

Even the intelligence agencies have concluded that altho the Russians "meddled" in the campaign (and they rest that charge partly on the totally unfounded accusation that Russians gave Assange the Podesta emails) that it didn't affect the outcome of the election. See?

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Not even close.

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Perfectly spot-on, for me.

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Frankly, I don't pay all that much attention what what Trump SAY

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