A thread for Democrats Only
POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
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Quote:Trump Falsely Says Times Made Up Source in Report on Korea Summit Meeting
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Deliberately lying requires a big social filter. If you just blurt out whatever pops into your head at the moment, it will be very difficult to lie.
Um, no it wouldn't - I keep telling you that's what salesmen do. I don't think you have had any experience with sales people. It's a study, it becomes second nature. This guy trained in the crucible of NYC. He knows the downside to lying is virtually non existent for him. He lied again this morning.
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-falsely-says-times-made-up-sourc
e-in-report-on-korea-summit-meeting/ar-AAxQtb0?ocid=spartandhp
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Salesmen have YUGE social filters. They don't blurt out whatever pops into their head at the moment ... Hey, you're black! Do you suppose I can sell you a nice Cadillac that you can't afford??? So you either need to credit Trump with more forethought, or give up on the idea of him lying.
Deliberately lying requires a big social filter. If you just blurt out whatever pops into your head at the moment, it will be very difficult to lie. - SIGNY
Um, no it wouldn't - I keep telling you that's what salesmen do. - CC
Quote:Well, Obama had YOU snowed, apparently. He said one thing and did the opposite, frequently.
So by your own opinion, Trump is constitutionally incapable of lying consistently. Correct? - SIGNY
Way incorrect. He is a consummate liar. He's even got you snowed. I thought you were smart? How do you miss all of this? - CC
Quote:Well, I AM tired of the drama. But we DO live in the age of reality TV, I guess that's what a lot of people want to see.
What you transcribed is a bunch of factually incorrect statements. Whether they were deliberate, inexact, or uninformed is I suppose a matter for discussion.- SIGNY
2 things on that:
1. you're saying he's lying or pretty damn stupid, or a combination of both. That doesn't concern you?
Quote:Yep, those are the choices. Just like with Obama, GWB, Hillary and Bill, Nixon, Bush, and Reagan!
2. I get the argument for incompetence, but when you see the pattern of him always making "false statements" that always make him and his people look better and brighter, then you realize there's an underlying methodology, and it's called lying. - - CC
Quote:Nope. I just got tired of arguing whether GWB "lied" about Iraq or was incredibly stupid.
Since people constantly accuse Trump of not knowing the details of how the government works or what's in the budget, some of it might be sheer carelessness. It's a point I find useless to argue. - SIGNY
Dodge away. =CC
Quote:No, I understood the post.
It's not. JSF asked which of Trump's statements were inaccurate, and those were the ones I can say were clearly incorrect. His other statements were mixtures of accuracies, potential accuracies, and inaccuracies, and each one would require debating the three or four points in each statement to determine how accurate each one was. Not a debate I felt like doing, and if I did you would simply say I was posting too many words! - SIGNY
There's no debate necessary - the facts were posted. You choose to not understand and that is your right. - CC
Quote:How do you know? If he had said sadly, I had no other choice but to cancel the summit would that have been more acceptable to you?
"Sadly, I was forced to cancel the summit..."
He wasn't forced.
Quote:How do you know whether they are or they aren't? I have read stories that FBI agents are quietly asking to be subpoenaed because if they come forward as whistleblowers they're hosed, but if they're subpoenaed they're safe. So possibly a true statement, we just don't know.
"Not surprisingly, the GREAT Men & Women of the FBI are starting to speak out against Comey, McCabe and all of the political corruption and poor leadership found within the top ranks of the FBI. Comey was a terrible and corrupt leader who inflicted great pain on the FBI! "
They are? Who? Cites for anything in that statement? 2, 3, 5 lies in that one tweet?
Quote:There was spying ON the Trump campaign. If there was a spy IN the Trump campaign we have yet to find out. This may be like Trump's tweet that they "wiretapped" Trump Tower. Did they physically tap into phone lines? No. But did they collect the electronic communications of people who were in Trump Tower? YES. So, an inexact statement but not entirely incorrect.
"Clapper has now admitted that there was Spying in my campaign.
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There is only one reason to lie in these threads as some do G, because they are trolling and nothing more. Sig and kiki to name two, are Russian trolls.
Hey guys, stop with the threats and have your lawyers contact me. I'm curious to see if they are Russian. I can hardly wait.
T 
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SECOND, your defense of Saint FDR is touching. But Saint FDR was a baby-rescuer, and not terribly interested in getting to the root causes of the booms and crashes which plague capitalism and financialism. Much of the crash was caused by speculation on stocks, fueled by loans made by banks ... loans of money which THE BANKS DIDN'T HAVE. When stock prices crashed, the loans became worthless, the bank coffers were empty, and banks started to topple over one after another. Yanno, kinda like 2008. Instead of disbanding The Fed and doing away with fractional reserve banking, FDR stepped in with government deficit spending to pump up the financial system, and Glass Steagall. Yanno, kind of like 2008, 2009, and beyond.
You read about Thorstein Veblen, right? Maybe you should re-read that chapter.
Quote:Economists see Democrats eager to ship jobs overseas, just like their GOP brethren.
Democrats see GOP state and federal legislators who routinely slash taxes on the wealthy, and services for the poor, in defiance of their constituents’ wishes;
What we have today isn't "capitalism", because essential features of "capitalism" are competition, a relative equivalence of power between workers and owners, and reliance on selling goods and services. We have "monopolism", we have "financialism" (the "renting of money"), we have politicians (Dems AND GOP) ready and willing to do the monopolies financial and legislative favors, which some would call "fascism". But whatever you call it, it's not capitalism, and FDR helped push it in this direction.
FDR ameliorated the worst effects of capitalism by "helping" people. The help was greatly appreciated, but in the end he didn't really do away with the causes of economic misery, he just made it less miserable.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
As long as you insist that everything is the Republicans'/ Democrats' fault, then you fail to grasp the REAL problem with American politics.
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:The 2 Most Stupid and incompetent Presidents we've had in a long time are Clinton and Obama. And those 2 have no rivals regarding the incessant lies they peddled.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:Um, no it wouldn't - I keep telling you that's what salesmen do. I don't think you have had any experience with sales people. It's a study, it becomes second nature. This guy trained in the crucible of NYC. He knows the downside to lying is virtually non existent for him. He lied again this morning.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Deliberately lying requires a big social filter. If you just blurt out whatever pops into your head at the moment, it will be very difficult to lie.Quote:Way incorrect. He is a consummate liar. He's even got you snowed. I thought you were smart? How do you miss all of this?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So by your own opinion, Trump is constitutionally incapable of lying consistently. Correct?Quote:2 things on that:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What you transcribed is a bunch of factually incorrect statements. Whether they were deliberate, inexact, or uninformed is I suppose a matter for discussion.
1. you're saying he's lying or pretty damn stupid, or a combination of both. That doesn't concern you?
But that doesn't seem to concern you, or other trolls.
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Quote:China loaned $500 million to an Indonesian theme park that will include a Trump-branded golf course and hotels. The Trump administration could not explain the apparent conflict of interest of the Trump organization benefiting from Trump’s actions as president.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The 2 Most Stupid and incompetent Presidents we've had in a long time are Clinton and Obama. And those 2 have no rivals regarding the incessant lies they peddled.
But that doesn't seem to concern you, or other trolls.
Ivanka Trump’s business recently secured five more valuable trademarks from China (with a sixth given trial approval), allowing her to expand her business there to the tune of millions of dollars in profits. The timing of the approval suspiciously overlaps with President Trump’s own dealings with China.
The new trademarks were approved on May 7, just days before Trump promised on Twitter to help save the Chinese phone company ZTE.
ZTE had previously been banned from buying American technology because it violated U.S. sanctions against Iran and North Korea. On Friday, Trump announced that ZTE would be allowed to continue business after paying a $1.3 billion fine, a deal that both Democrats and Republicans in Congress oppose. In fact, more than 60 House Democrats are now calling for an ethics investigation into Trump’s ties to China.
This isn’t the first time that Ivanka’s business has been approved for Chinese trademarks under suspicious circumstances. Last year, three such trademarks were approved within hours of Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-a-Lago. Following that meeting, Trump also reneged on his campaign promise to label China a “currency manipulator” and instead praised the country’s leader.
https://thinkprogress.org/ivanka-zte-china-2e5bc9241439/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Signy
I'm not trying to solve all the world's problems. Or even all of this country's problems. I'm not trying to re-invent the economy, or change the tax structure, or redistribute wealth.
I have one very limited goal in mind: how to provide more benefit to the people of this country keeping everything else the same. This is one proposal.
Now, you may argue very cogently, and in my opinion correctly, that this won't 'solve' the problem. And personally, I don't see profit as potential energy, waiting to be released to boost the economy further. (Though why we need to 'boost' an economy beyond providing for everyone in it is beyond me.) I see profit in today's structure as entropy, energy in an unusable form, lost to the economic universe. Trickle down has never worked.
But to reiterate, solving our economic structure isn't my goal. My goal, which I've stated very plainly, is to provide more value from living in this society to the people in it, without restructuring.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
I added to my post, see above
Oh, I didn't see this until later ...Quote:More people employed at civilian work under a military/government structure?
That would be our "peace dividend."
Okay, let me take another run at this. Maybe another THREE runs at this!
***
What is the REAL solution to unemployment? Does it consist of the government running after the corporations, cleaning up after the human wreckage that they leave behind by sweeping up the unemployed, homeless, and poverty-stricken into government jobs and welfare programs? Doing it more "efficiently" by hijacking a wasteful (military) program? Or does it consist of eliminating the REAL source of unemployment, which is the PROFIT MOTIVE which continually puts people out of work? (Corporations as "job creators". HA! "Job destroyers" is more like it!)
If you look at FDR, what did he do? He swept up the broken human refuse of the Gilded Age, "provided" jobs and welfare to the common people crushed under the Great Depression. But what did he REALLY do? Did he REALLY save "the people"? Or did he "really" save capitalism and financialism from impending revolt?
****
IMHO, the "real" solution to unemployment doesn't mean "the government providing" jobs to the unemployed. Instead, "the government" should be changing the laws which incentivize unemployment to begin with.
The REAL solution would be to rewrite the laws of "incorporation" to disallow individual ownership of "the means of production" (a la The Dispossessed) and disallow monetary creation by the banks via "fractional reserve banking". The creation of Federal welfare programs doesn't save The People, it saves capitalism from its own self-destruction. The REAL solution, IMHO, is to create a system which actively destroys concentration of power. It's a kind of "anti-monopoly" system which doesn't apply just to businesses but also to ideas (no trade-able "copyrights" and "patents" which can be transferred to someone besides the original author/inventor) and media (if you have to pay to transmit an idea, it's no longer "free speech", it's advertising). Because POWER CONCENTRATES (it has a kind of gravitational force, in which power begets more power, like mass attracts more mass) there must be a force which actively disperses it. (one of my arguments with libertarians is that "market forces" will solve everything. HAHAHAHA!)
*****
I will go back to the story of washerwomen at the riverbank, seeing babies floating down the river, drowning. One woman cries and wrings her hands. Another woman organizes a village brigade to rescue babies from the river. But a third breaks way to run upstream.
Where are you going? cry the rescue brigade, We need you for theNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:My statement remains the highpoint of your post.
Originally posted by second:Quote:China loaned $500 million to an Indonesian blah blah blah.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The 2 Most Stupid and incompetent Presidents we've had in a long time are Clinton and Obama. And those 2 have no rivals regarding the incessant lies they peddled.
But that doesn't seem to concern you, or other trolls.
Your limp attempts of diversion do not induce sensible folk to avoid the simple truth.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"What is the plan to eradicate power hungry despots across the globe, thereby ending further need of Forceful Defense?" There's no mention in the Constitution of having the military engage in wars overseas (especially not being the aggressor in a war of choice), only for "common (states) defense".
"What is the benefit of taking Nuclear Power Plant Operators (which college gradjitates are not qualified for), Avionics Technicians (after training equivalent to more than 5 years of college), medics/corpsmen - or illiterate Obama's corpse-men - or heavy equipment Construction Engineers/SeaBees, and retrain them to become Ummm, highly trained hmmmm carpenters?"Quote:Now, as impressive as all of this sounds, the military trains people in an extremely narrow way. You don't learn to "build", you learn to set up specific models of military-supplied prefab units. You don't learn to "operate heavy machinery" you learn to drive one particular type of military vehicle. ... I'll have to get to this later. Family calls ...
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/military/military-careers.htm
Enlisted personnel make up about 82 percent of the Armed Forces and carry out military operations.
Administrative 51,283
Combat Specialty 151,501
Construction 30,322
Electronic and Electrical Equipment Repair 129,209
Engineering, Science, and Technical 161,571
Healthcare 68,365
Human Resource Development 29,574
Machine Operator and Production 23,293
Media and Public Affairs 19,371
Protective Service 76,567
Support Service 26,783
Transportation and Material Handling 142,198
Vehicle and Machinery Mechanic 160,690
Non-occupation or unspecified coded personnel 14,559
The remaining 18 percent are officers—military leaders who manage operations and enlisted personnel.
Combat Specialty 35,743
Engineering, Science, and Technical 53,097
Executive, Administrative, and Managerial 29,230
Healthcare 26,967
Human Resource Development 8,449
Media and Public Affairs 1,053
Protective Service 5,611
Support Service 3,388
Transportation 45,346
Non-occupation or unspecified coded personnel 24,705
Back now. Training and equipping military personnel for non-military duties would give them something they could take into a civilian economy. But that's not the main purpose of this.
"How will the peaceniks be convinced that continued Defense Spending devoid of military operations would be a good idea?" Peaceniks might be more in favor of it if it doesn't involve killing brown people overseas, but returns value to the country.
"How will Budget Hawks be convinced that excessive government spending on non-Defense functions is a warranted idea?" This would still be the military - trained, equipped, and ready to defend the country. But providing benefit while not in combat.
"What is the purpose of converting the DoD from the only cost-beneficial entity of the Federal Government (used to be 2nd behind NASA, but Bobo got rid of that) into one of the worst, like the rest of the welfare programs? (NASA had $1.21 return per $1 spent, DoD had $1.06 return, and welfare scams like this returned about $0.33 return per $1 spent)." I think you need to talk to the budget people in Washington and tell them the trillions spent in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Syria are really benefits, not huge budget deficits.
"Is the only percieved goal of this idea to replace private sector jobs/work with wasteful public sector work and thus "growing the Economy with Big Government Spending" again?" No, the purpose is to get more value from military spending.
"What is the benefit of trading all battlefields from outside North America in exchange for locations inside USA chosen by the terrorist or despot Aggressor? Why turn New York, LA, Atlanta, Chicago, Miami, Dallas into Fallujah, Mosul?" If we were actually fighting them instead of giving them money and supplies (like we did in SyNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
You mean I'm happy at America's failure to defend its own borders? Not at all. But it looks like we need more border defense, not less.
SECOND is a troll because it constantly misrepresents what people post, fails to address their actual positions, and resorts to personal attacks when its brain isn't working (which is most of the time).
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