What's going on in Fallujah?
POSTED BY: InevitableBetrayal
UPDATED: Monday, November 21, 2005 04:21
VIEWED: 4808
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Quote:
Just out of curiousity, How many Iraqi insurgents have been polled about killing non-combatants and Iraqi Civilians?
It really seems ridiculous to me to constantly portray the military in such a onesided fashion, while completely ignoring the foreign insurgents and their actions against non-combatants and civilians as if they don't exist.
But what has that got to do with our miltary...its the trickle down effect,...just like the administration..its passing the buck...and not taking responssiblity for what we do...
you make it sound as if people are against the miltary...its not as simple as that..I think the majority of us know that most of our miltary is a bunch of young ingnorant kids who are following orders..because thats what you do in the miltary you follow orders
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Quote:
More Than 2,000 Killed in Fallujah
Updated: Thursday, Nov. 25, 2004 - 10:37 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - More than 2,000 people have been killed so far in the U.S.-Iraqi operation against the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, an Iraqi official said Thursday.
But Qassem Dawoud, the government's national security adviser, gave no breakdown of deaths among U.S. troops, Iraqi forces, insurgents and civilians.
As of Thursday, the death toll was more than 2,085. He also said more than 1,600 people have been arrested, Dawoud told reporters.
U.S. officials had said 54 U.S. soldiers and Marines were killed in the offensive that began Nov. 8. Troops still are fighting small pockets of insurgents holding out in southern parts of the city.
(Copyright 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4442988.stm
The debate about WP (white phosphorous) centres partly though not wholly on whether it is really a chemical weapon. Such weapons are outlawed by the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to which the United States is a party.
The CWC is monitored by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, based in The Hague. Its spokesman Peter Kaiser was asked if WP was banned by the CWC and he had this to say:
White phosphorous being used over Falluja
"No it's not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement.
"If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the Convention legitimate use.
"If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons."
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Okay,
This isn't me leaping in to the frey, this is me taking a pot shot from a vantage point with a crossbow. Call me a coward. I am a coward. Here's something: The dept. of defense has done studies that show that the most cowardly soldiers are ten times as likely to survive in a combat situation as the bravest soldiers. Just something to chew on.
Now here's something else.
We created the mess in fallujah. Part of the random socionaziism of Bush an co.
Here's something more objective:
Okay, we went in and did the evil nazi thing. Now it's done. We have to live with the consequences. We fought this war so badly, that we took something which used to be in the hands of sucky socialists and gave it to Al Qaeda. Even in my book that's not a step up.
Okay, here's something even more objective:
Now that it's done we have to deal with the FACT that these guys posting this right wing dribble have a point. Fallujah is full of terrorists. Al Qaeda has the upper hand and if we don't kick their ass they're going to end up with all of Iraq, and that will mean a whole lot of oil and some serious control in the middle east and one motherlode of cash.
Here's something else, even more objective:
Al Jazeera is the same sort of whore as all of the media. And whore media is the best kind of democracy. Because they say what their pollsters have told them that the people want to here. So here's what Al Jazeera's been saying:
Yay terrorism, kick America's ass, it's all the fault of the jews. Annihilate Israel, etc.
Sure, okay, but that's what all the arab media is saying. Why? Because this is what the people want to hear.
So the problem is much worse than we think.
Here's another thing. Before we went in Osama Bin Laden and Co said to everyone:
America's going to invade and occupy an oil rich muslim nation, and they're going to do it to steal your oil, they'll torture your children and dehumanize you, they'll make war on Islam, they'll make war on Allah.
Or some words very much to that effect.
Then we went in and proved him right, we proved to all of Iraq that Al Qaeda was a god. Now we have to deal with the consequences.
The first order of the day is to take these lying mo$&%^%^&fo&*(^*^s and put them in jail. And I mean both the Clinton and the Bush admin and their backers.
Then we need to deal with the problem at hand, which is stopping Iraq from falling permanently into terrorist hands which would create a giant funding mechanism for Al Qaeda attacks against everyone. Particularly the west.
I don't have a solution to this, but I'm willing to hear ideas. I'm only willing to hear ideas. If you want to make attacks against me because of the above rant, I won't respond. I just get sick of all this partisan posturing that has nothing to do with solutions. Which were I a democrat I might have just engaged in, but you know what I mean.
Regardless of why fallujah is a terrorist haven, ir is now.
I think it had something to do with how we went into fallujah and slaughtered women and children on mass in post election celebration. Anyone who wants to partisanly blame Bush for this, I have this to say:
In the debates when the moderator criticized Kerry for constantly saying that Bush's war strategy was wrong, without once saying what was wrong with it, asked Kerry for an example and he said something to the effect of Oh I would've invaded Fallujah.
Anyway, regardless the mess is there now. Who has a fix?
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I have always wondered why the rest of the Arab nations have been so silent on Iraq - neither supporting nor condemning either side in the run-up or aftermath. Perhaps it's b/c they are between a rock and a hard place.
They have a vested interest in not seeing a successful US puppet 'democracy', but also in not seeing a destabilized Iraq.
Perhaps the US could quietly engage them and make a deal - you secure the borders and we'll withdraw our influence. You keep the peace and we'll have nothing to say about the form of government in Iraq.
Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.
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Rue,
Interesting point.
I think there's another thing on their minds though. They know, many of them, that the US just needs them to give us a reason to invade, and that they just need to give Al Qaeda a reason to attack.
If they oppose us, there's a possibility that the US will seek their overthrow through invasion or legitimate political process as part of our plan to create a western-friendly mideast.
If they support us they risk being attacked by Al Qaeda as a collaborator. So I agree Iraq and a hard place, but there are several factors involved, I just add mine to yours, and there are others which may play in such as Israel or OPEC.
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