Self-Driving Uber Car Racks Up First Kill
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Thursday, September 19, 2024 15:05
VIEWED: 20804
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Quote:So they've only been on the road for 9 years so far, right?
Originally posted by Zeek:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Humans are ready to drive a car after a few weeks and a few hundred miles of driver's education. And the humans cause only 1 fatality per 100,000,000 vehicle miles. Whatever algorithm Uber is training, it is learning extremely slowly. If Uber was creating a super-humanly safe driving system, I'd expect it to take millions of miles of practice. But I'd also expect it from the very first year to be as good as a human student driver with no more training than a student driver gets. Uber should have never let their cars off a closed test track until it was as good as some dorky 15 year old qualifying for his license.
That's not a fair comparison. The self driving system is learning everything. Not just driving. So, if we are following the same timeline then the system needs 15 years to be equal to a human. It's learning the equivalent of hand eye coordination. It's learning object permanence. It's learning what a dog is, what a cat is, what a deer is. It's learning the world just like we do as infants. We even get a head start because some of that is ingrained in our DNA and we just react on instincts. There's no evolution process to give a machine instincts. They have to learn it all.
However, being a specialized system it doesn't really need to learn all the things humans learn. It doesn't need to learn history, science, math, etc. It's not going to spend time on entertainment. It'll never understand pop culture, but we don't need or want it to learn those things. So, maybe 15 years is too generous. I'm fairly certain we'll see full autonomous cars commercially available in under 5 years. So, I think it will beat a human even in learning.
The other fun advantage is that they're talking about letting the system learn in a virtual environment. Sort of a supped up car driving videogame that allows the car to learn in the matrix. So, maybe we'll never hook a human up to the matrix to teach them kung fu, but for artificial intelligence it might just be a possibility. And then no human lives are on the line while it learns.
The 5 year mark was 4 years ago.
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Quote:It’s still an open question how the video, lidar, and radar sensors all managed to miss seeing a pedestrian in front of the car. I’ll bet Uber already has a pretty good idea of what happened, but so far they aren’t telling.
Originally posted by Zeek:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Humans are ready to drive a car after a few weeks and a few hundred miles of driver's education. And the humans cause only 1 fatality per 100,000,000 vehicle miles. Whatever algorithm Uber is training, it is learning extremely slowly. If Uber was creating a super-humanly safe driving system, I'd expect it to take millions of miles of practice. But I'd also expect it from the very first year to be as good as a human student driver with no more training than a student driver gets. Uber should have never let their cars off a closed test track until it was as good as some dorky 15 year old qualifying for his license.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
That's not a fair comparison. The self driving system is learning everything. Not just driving. So, if we are following the same timeline then the system needs 15 years to be equal to a human. It's learning the equivalent of hand eye coordination. It's learning object permanence. It's learning what a dog is, what a cat is, what a deer is. It's learning the world just like we do as infants. We even get a head start because some of that is ingrained in our DNA and we just react on instincts. There's no evolution process to give a machine instincts. They have to learn it all.
However, being a specialized system it doesn't really need to learn all the things humans learn. It doesn't need to learn history, science, math, etc. It's not going to spend time on entertainment. It'll never understand pop culture, but we don't need or want it to learn those things. So, maybe 15 years is too generous. I'm fairly certain we'll see full autonomous cars commercially available in under 5 years. So, I think it will beat a human even in learning.
The other fun advantage is that they're talking about letting the system learn in a virtual environment. Sort of a supped up car driving videogame that allows the car to learn in the matrix. So, maybe we'll never hook a human up to the matrix to teach them kung fu, but for artificial intelligence it might just be a possibility. And then no human lives are on the line while it learns.
If I had to guess, the sensors were NOT working properly and the Uber Computer did NOT react by stopping on the side of the road with its hazard blinkers flashing while it waited for a technician to fix whatever knocked out the sensors. Maybe Uber did not program the computer to handle that unusual circumstance. I've seen human drivers not programmed for unusual circumstances. For one example: a teenage driver with a flat tire kept driving down the road at slow speed as the tire tears itself apart and the aluminum rim was ruined. What was the reason the teenager gave as I replaced the wheel with the spare tire? Home was only few more blocks away. This was a learning experience on what not to do on a front wheel drive car when the rear tire on the passenger side goes flat.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Also, the history of the Forum is not always intuitive. Once, before Cinema, most Film topics were put in Talk Story or General Discussion. Same with Other Science Fiction Series. Sometimes the difference between Talk Story and News Headline Discussion escapes notice.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:Thanks for the reply.
Originally posted by Moose:Quote:Fair enough.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:I was using the descriptive subtitle on the "To The Boards" page, which I try to do with each of the subforums. I was not attempting hijacking.
Originally posted by Moose:
If you look back at the history of this forum, you’ll see the vast majority of the threads are about News Headlines that concern the show. But since there has been lack of Firefly in the headlines the past few years, I kinda understand you all hijacking it for your own use.
But that’s not even what I’m complaining about. Reread this thread and if you can’t figure it out, oh well.
It ultimately doesn’t matter. This place has been on life support for a long time.
Oh, I’m not a fan of self driving vehicles but I do wonder if a human driver could have avoided that accident.
Maybe, maybe not.
Sorry I’ve been bitchy in this thread, I’ve had a f’ed up couple of weeks and let it spill into here.
I suspect I understood what you were referring to, but that was beyond my control, and I couldn't conjure a way for me to satisfy the points you were making.
I do hope you will again call me out if I post a thread here which is truly not a News Headline for Discussion.
I see your point about the History of News Headline - and I wish more Headlines were about Firefly, such as Capt Mal on American Housewife, which is not in News Headline Forum.
When hunting for the most appropriate forum to place a thread, one sees that Talk Story is grouped with Cinema and RWED, while News Headline is grouped with Other Science Fiction Series and General Discussion. So I check other thread titles within those 2 to see where my new thread best fits, or matches.
Although some people choose to post their sexual exploits and sodomy adventures in General Discussion and Cinema, I do at least attempt some modicum of organization and conformity.
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Prevent accidents like Uber’s self-driving car crash
https://qz.com/1241384
“Imagine if this camera [in Uber’s car] was actually analyzing the driver’s head pose, eye closure rate, eyes on the road or not, various emotional and cognitive states, and in real time was able to alert if the safety driver was not paying attention,” says Rana el Kaliouby, CEO of Affectiva, an AI startup working with auto manufacturers like BMW and Daimler on this problem.
Since the Uber car already had a driver-facing camera, el Kaliouby notes, the technology and infrastructure for this solution already exists. All that’s needed is to implement software that actually monitors the driver.
Cadillacs with the “Super Cruise” semi-autonomous mode already have a form of this technology. These cars have a small camera located in the steering wheel that tracks a person’s head and eyes. If the camera detects that a person is not looking at the road, the steering wheel begins to flash and the car makes a warning noise, prompting them to pay attention. If the driver still isn’t watching the road, the car automatically slows down to a stop, puts on the hazard lights, and calls the emergency vehicle-assistance service OnStar.
“How long it takes before the system notices a driver is not paying attention depends on your speed,” Robb Bolio, a lead engineer for GM’s autonomous vehicles unit, told CNBC. “If you are going 75 miles per hour, it’s three or four seconds, depending on the traffic around you. If you are in bumper-to-bumper traffic going 10 miles per hour, it’s a little longer.”
Euro NCAP, an automotive safety organization backed by the European Commission and five European governments, has already said that driver monitoring systems like this will be a key factor in how it rates cars for safety.
“The idea is that this is a symbiotic relationship between human and machine,” el Kaliouby says. “We need to leverage that relationship until we’re comfortable that these vehicles can drive in an autonomous mode, I don’t think anyone would say we’re at a place where we’re comfortable doing that.”
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So they've only been on the road for 9 years so far, right?
The 5 year mark was 4 years ago.
Yeah I mean 5 years from the time of posting. I'm not sure they were on the road 9 years ago though.
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
It’s still an open question how the video, lidar, and radar sensors all managed to miss seeing a pedestrian in front of the car. I’ll bet Uber already has a pretty good idea of what happened, but so far they aren’t telling.
If I had to guess, the sensors were NOT working properly and the Uber Computer did NOT react by stopping on the side of the road with its hazard blinkers flashing while it waited for a technician to fix whatever knocked out the sensors. Maybe Uber did not program the computer to handle that unusual circumstance. I've seen human drivers not programmed for unusual circumstances. For one example: a teenage driver with a flat tire kept driving down the road at slow speed as the tire tears itself apart and the aluminum rim was ruined. What was the reason the teenager gave as I replaced the wheel with the spare tire? Home was only few more blocks away. This was a learning experience on what not to do on a front wheel drive car when the rear tire on the passenger side goes flat.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
I haven't seen anything in the news about whether Uber has recovered the vehicle or at least the data yet. I thought I read the police had confiscated it. My guess is they're trying to make heads or tails of what happened first. Kinda a tall order if they don't know how the system works in the first place. If they could even find the system logs I'd be impressed. I still wouldn't suspect they'd know what any of it means.
A friend of mine brought up that the data is probably worth millions to Uber. It is a learning experience for their systems. Does that then put into question whether it's in the company's best interest to create a situation where a car kills a person just for the data? A company's purpose is to make money and if they estimate that killing a person is profitable (after fines, PR nightmare, court cases, etc.) then that's a scary world. I'm hoping that's not already the case.
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Quote:Does the Cadillac pull to the side of the road? Stopping in the middle lane of Interstate could be unhealthy.
Originally posted by second:
Prevent accidents like Uber’s self-driving car crash
https://qz.com/1241384
“Imagine if this camera [in Uber’s car] was actually analyzing the driver’s head pose, eye closure rate, eyes on the road or not, various emotional and cognitive states, and in real time was able to alert if the safety driver was not paying attention,” says Rana el Kaliouby, CEO of Affectiva, an AI startup working with auto manufacturers like BMW and Daimler on this problem.
Since the Uber car already had a driver-facing camera, el Kaliouby notes, the technology and infrastructure for this solution already exists. All that’s needed is to implement software that actually monitors the driver.
Cadillacs with the “Super Cruise” semi-autonomous mode already have a form of this technology. These cars have a small camera located in the steering wheel that tracks a person’s head and eyes. If the camera detects that a person is not looking at the road, the steering wheel begins to flash and the car makes a warning noise, prompting them to pay attention. If the driver still isn’t watching the road, the car automatically slows down to a stop, puts on the hazard lights, and calls the emergency vehicle-assistance service OnStar.
“How long it takes before the system notices a driver is not paying attention depends on your speed,” Robb Bolio, a lead engineer for GM’s autonomous vehicles unit, told CNBC. “If you are going 75 miles per hour, it’s three or four seconds, depending on the traffic around you. If you are in bumper-to-bumper traffic going 10 miles per hour, it’s a little longer.”
Euro NCAP, an automotive safety organization backed by the European Commission and five European governments, has already said that driver monitoring systems like this will be a key factor in how it rates cars for safety.
“The idea is that this is a symbiotic relationship between human and machine,” el Kaliouby says. “We need to leverage that relationship until we’re comfortable that these vehicles can drive in an autonomous mode, I don’t think anyone would say we’re at a place where we’re comfortable doing that.”
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Quote:You won’t like what the instructions say:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Does the Cadillac pull to the side of the road? Stopping in the middle lane of Interstate could be unhealthy.
The system is designed to maintain the current lane. You need to take control to change lanes, steer around a traffic situation or object, merge into traffic, or exit the freeway. Super Cruise does not detect construction zones.
3RD ALERT
If the steering wheel light bar flashes red for too long, a voice prompt will be heard. You should take over steering immediately; otherwise, the vehicle will slow in your lane of travel and eventually brake to a stop. Super Cruise and Adaptive Cruise Control will disengage. In the event of an unresponsive driver, the vehicle will come to a controlled stop, activate the hazard lights, and contact OnStar Emergency Services.
www.cadillac.com/content/dam/cadillac/na/us/english/index/ownership/te
chnology/supercruise/pdfs/2018-cad-ct6-supercruise-personalization.pdf
If you drop dead at 70mph or fall asleep, the Cadillac won’t drive your body to the hospital or to the edge of the road. It will simply stop moving a few seconds after your heart stops or you begin snoring. It won’t cruise west on I-10 until it runs out of gas.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:That sounds hazardous. Think of the middle lane of 10.
Originally posted by second:Quote:You won’t like what the instructions say:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Does the Cadillac pull to the side of the road? Stopping in the middle lane of Interstate could be unhealthy.
The system is designed to maintain the current lane. You need to take control to change lanes, steer around a traffic situation or object, merge into traffic, or exit the freeway. Super Cruise does not detect construction zones.
3RD ALERT
If the steering wheel light bar flashes red for too long, a voice prompt will be heard. You should take over steering immediately; otherwise, the vehicle will slow in your lane of travel and eventually brake to a stop. Super Cruise and Adaptive Cruise Control will disengage. In the event of an unresponsive driver, the vehicle will come to a controlled stop, activate the hazard lights, and contact OnStar Emergency Services.
www.cadillac.com/content/dam/cadillac/na/us/english/index/ownership/te
chnology/supercruise/pdfs/2018-cad-ct6-supercruise-personalization.pdf
If you drop dead at 70mph or fall asleep, the Cadillac won’t drive your body to the hospital or to the edge of the road. It will simply stop moving a few seconds after your heart stops or you begin snoring. It won’t cruise west on I-10 until it runs out of gas.
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Quote:There is an article titled "Path to Autonomy: Self-Driving Car Levels 0 to 5 Explained". The Cadillac Super Cruise is only at level 2. The ultimate goal is level 5. No company except Waymo is anywhere close to a 5 prototype. There was only one car that ever made it up to level 4, but it has been discontinued.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
That sounds hazardous. Think of the middle lane of 10.
www.caranddriver.com/features/path-to-autonomy-self-driving-car-levels
-0-to-5-explained-feature
Funny scene where Russell Crowe says, "You don't have to pull over. The car can drive itself." That is only true in dreams.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I just hear MSM report that the driver was killed in the accident. That's not correct, is it?
The report also said the driver had not touched the wheel for more than 6 seconds, despite repeated warnings, alarms, and alerts.
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