Self-Driving Uber Car Racks Up First Kill
POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Thursday, September 19, 2024 15:05
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Quote:I was using the descriptive subtitle on the "To The Boards" page, which I try to do with each of the subforums. I was not attempting hijacking.
Originally posted by Moose:
If you look back at the history of this forum, you’ll see the vast majority of the threads are about News Headlines that concern the show. But since there has been lack of Firefly in the headlines the past few years, I kinda understand you all hijacking it for your own use.
But that’s not even what I’m complaining about. Reread this thread and if you can’t figure it out, oh well.
It ultimately doesn’t matter. This place has been on life support for a long time.
Oh, I’m not a fan of self driving vehicles but I do wonder if a human driver could have avoided that accident.
Maybe, maybe not.
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Quote:Well, that is heartening, and refreshing.
Originally posted by second:Quote:A human driver who wasn't half asleep and driving that dark road would have used high beams on the headlights because there wasn't any oncoming traffic. The pedestrian would have shown much better. The Arizona governor has expressed himself forcefully:
Originally posted by Moose:
Oh, I’m not a fan of self driving vehicles but I do wonder if a human driver could have avoided that accident.
Maybe, maybe not.
Updated March 26,2018, 10:14 p.m. ET
Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey on Monday ordered Uber Technologies Inc. to suspend testing autonomous vehicles on public roadways in the state, a blow to the company’s development efforts after one of its self-driving cars struck and killed a pedestrian in Tempe.
Mr. Ducey, a Republican who welcomed Uber’s self-driving technology with open arms to Arizona in 2016, said in a letter to Uber’s chief executive that he had directed the state’s department of transportation to suspend the company’s ability to test the cars.
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March 27, 2018 / 5:13 PM
The new Uber driverless vehicle is armed with only one roof-mounted lidar sensor compared with seven lidar units on the older Ford Fusion models Uber employed, according to diagrams prepared by Uber.
In scaling back to a single lidar on the Volvo, Uber introduced a blind zone around the perimeter of the SUV that cannot fully detect pedestrians, according to interviews with former employees and Raj Rajkumar, the head of Carnegie Mellon University's transportation center who has been working on self-driving technology for over a decade.
The lidar system made by Velodyne - one of the top suppliers of sensors for self-driving vehicles - sees objects in a 360-degree circle around the car, but has a narrow vertical range that prevents it from detecting obstacles low to the ground, according to information on Velodyne’s website as well as former employees who operated the Uber SUVs.
Autonomous vehicles operated by rivals Waymo, Alphabet Inc's self-driving vehicle unit, have six lidar sensors, while General Motors Co's vehicle contains five, according to information from the companies.
Uber declined to comment on its decision to reduce its lidar count, and referred questions on the blind spot to Velodyne. Velodyne acknowledged that with the rooftop lidar there is a roughly three meter blind spot around a vehicle, saying that more sensors are necessary.
"If you're going to avoid pedestrians, you're going to need to have a side lidar to see those pedestrians and avoid them, especially at night," Marta Hall, president and chief business development officer at Velodyne, told Reuters.
www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-selfdriving-sensors-insight/ubers-use-
of-fewer-safety-sensors-prompts-questions-after-arizona-crash-idUSKBN1H337Q
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:What kind of retard thinks this is OK? At least now we know they are targeting small kids.
Originally posted by second:
March 27, 2018 / 5:13 PM
The new Uber driverless vehicle is armed with only one roof-mounted lidar sensor compared with seven lidar units on the older Ford Fusion models Uber employed, according to diagrams prepared by Uber.
In scaling back to a single lidar on the Volvo, Uber introduced a blind zone around the perimeter of the SUV that cannot fully detect pedestrians, according to interviews with former employees and Raj Rajkumar, the head of Carnegie Mellon University's transportation center who has been working on self-driving technology for over a decade.
The lidar system made by Velodyne - one of the top suppliers of sensors for self-driving vehicles - sees objects in a 360-degree circle around the car, but has a narrow vertical range that prevents it from detecting obstacles low to the ground, according to information on Velodyne’s website as well as former employees who operated the Uber SUVs.
Autonomous vehicles operated by rivals Waymo, Alphabet Inc's self-driving vehicle unit, have six lidar sensors, while General Motors Co's vehicle contains five, according to information from the companies.
Uber declined to comment on its decision to reduce its lidar count, and referred questions on the blind spot to Velodyne. Velodyne acknowledged that with the rooftop lidar there is a roughly three meter blind spot around a vehicle, saying that more sensors are necessary.
"If you're going to avoid pedestrians, you're going to need to have a side lidar to see those pedestrians and avoid them, especially at night," Marta Hall, president and chief business development officer at Velodyne, told Reuters.
www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-selfdriving-sensors-insight/ubers-use-
of-fewer-safety-sensors-prompts-questions-after-arizona-crash-idUSKBN1H337Q
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Quote:In America, humans only have about 1 fatality every 100,000,000 miles and they do not have 7 lidars watching for pedestrians and don't have 10 radars watching for other cars and they do not have 20 video cameras for eyes watching the road. Either the Uber video cameras are far worse than the average human eye or the Uber software is far worse than the average human's reflexes.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What kind of retard thinks this is OK? At least now we know they are targeting small kids.
www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-s
tate-overview
The earlier Uber's Ford Fusion test cars used seven lidars, seven radars and 20 cameras. The newer Volvo test vehicles use a single lidar, 10 radars and seven cameras, Uber said.
www.reuters.com/article/us-uber-selfdriving-sensors-insight/ubers-use-
of-fewer-safety-sensors-prompts-questions-after-arizona-crash-idUSKBN1H337Q
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Honestly we don't know enough details right now to determine what went wrong. Self driving systems are not so much programmed as they are trained. The only way for the systems to learn is to continue to experience more and more different situations. One theory I've heard floated around is that they were potentially training the lidar sensors by using the other sensors to control the driving. Given that this happened at night that seems like a bad idea. Lidar is supposed to be better at detecting things that are difficult to see.
It could also be that the lidar sensor they were using was insufficient. That sounds negligent to me and could potentially turn into an expensive lawsuit.
We also have to remember that Uber is a company on the fast track to bankruptcy. They aren't making money. Instead they're hemorrhaging it at a billion dollar per quarter rate recently. There self driving platform is probably not something they can afford to do. However, Uber has never appeared to have a good corporate culture. It wouldn't surprise me if they're playing fast and loose with their self driving project and are cutting corners to save money.
Overall, I wouldn't put this incident down as a knock on self driving cars. I'd say it's more a knock on Uber.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:I was using the descriptive subtitle on the "To The Boards" page, which I try to do with each of the subforums. I was not attempting hijacking.
Originally posted by Moose:
If you look back at the history of this forum, you’ll see the vast majority of the threads are about News Headlines that concern the show. But since there has been lack of Firefly in the headlines the past few years, I kinda understand you all hijacking it for your own use.
But that’s not even what I’m complaining about. Reread this thread and if you can’t figure it out, oh well.
It ultimately doesn’t matter. This place has been on life support for a long time.
Oh, I’m not a fan of self driving vehicles but I do wonder if a human driver could have avoided that accident.
Maybe, maybe not.
Fair enough.
Sorry I’ve been bitchy in this thread, I’ve had a f’ed up couple of weeks and let it spill into here.
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Quote:Humans are ready to drive a car after a few weeks and a few hundred miles of driver's education. And the humans cause only 1 fatality per 100,000,000 vehicle miles. Whatever algorithm Uber is training, it is learning extremely slowly. If Uber was creating a super-humanly safe driving system, I'd expect it to take millions of miles of practice. But I'd also expect it from the very first year to be as good as a human student driver with no more training than a student driver gets. Uber should have never let their cars off a closed test track until it was as good as some dorky 15 year old qualifying for his license.
Originally posted by Zeek:
Honestly we don't know enough details right now to determine what went wrong. Self driving systems are not so much programmed as they are trained. The only way for the systems to learn is to continue to experience more and more different situations. One theory I've heard floated around is that they were potentially training the lidar sensors by using the other sensors to control the driving. Given that this happened at night that seems like a bad idea. Lidar is supposed to be better at detecting things that are difficult to see.
It could also be that the lidar sensor they were using was insufficient. That sounds negligent to me and could potentially turn into an expensive lawsuit.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Thanks for the reply.
Originally posted by Moose:Quote:Fair enough.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:I was using the descriptive subtitle on the "To The Boards" page, which I try to do with each of the subforums. I was not attempting hijacking.
Originally posted by Moose:
If you look back at the history of this forum, you’ll see the vast majority of the threads are about News Headlines that concern the show. But since there has been lack of Firefly in the headlines the past few years, I kinda understand you all hijacking it for your own use.
But that’s not even what I’m complaining about. Reread this thread and if you can’t figure it out, oh well.
It ultimately doesn’t matter. This place has been on life support for a long time.
Oh, I’m not a fan of self driving vehicles but I do wonder if a human driver could have avoided that accident.
Maybe, maybe not.
Sorry I’ve been bitchy in this thread, I’ve had a f’ed up couple of weeks and let it spill into here.
I suspect I understood what you were referring to, but that was beyond my control, and I couldn't conjure a way for me to satisfy the points you were making.
I do hope you will again call me out if I post a thread here which is truly not a News Headline for Discussion.
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Humans are ready to drive a car after a few weeks and a few hundred miles of driver's education. And the humans cause only 1 fatality per 100,000,000 vehicle miles. Whatever algorithm Uber is training, it is learning extremely slowly. If Uber was creating a super-humanly safe driving system, I'd expect it to take millions of miles of practice. But I'd also expect it from the very first year to be as good as a human student driver with no more training than a student driver gets. Uber should have never let their cars off a closed test track until it was as good as some dorky 15 year old qualifying for his license.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
That's not a fair comparison. The self driving system is learning everything. Not just driving. So, if we are following the same timeline then the system needs 15 years to be equal to a human. It's learning the equivalent of hand eye coordination. It's learning object permanence. It's learning what a dog is, what a cat is, what a deer is. It's learning the world just like we do as infants. We even get a head start because some of that is ingrained in our DNA and we just react on instincts. There's no evolution process to give a machine instincts. They have to learn it all.
However, being a specialized system it doesn't really need to learn all the things humans learn. It doesn't need to learn history, science, math, etc. It's not going to spend time on entertainment. It'll never understand pop culture, but we don't need or want it to learn those things. So, maybe 15 years is too generous. I'm fairly certain we'll see full autonomous cars commercially available in under 5 years. So, I think it will beat a human even in learning.
The other fun advantage is that they're talking about letting the system learn in a virtual environment. Sort of a supped up car driving videogame that allows the car to learn in the matrix. So, maybe we'll never hook a human up to the matrix to teach them kung fu, but for artificial intelligence it might just be a possibility. And then no human lives are on the line while it learns.
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