A thread for Democrats Only

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UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
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6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question
Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:
You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?
I know what you're getting at.
I am fair certain you do not.

I do, and I explained it. I'm well aware that union pay goes up with minimum wage increases. That's an altogether separate problem that needs to be addressed. Not a reason not to increase minimum wage.

You haven't once addressed what I"m getting at. Which is you better build that moat around your house that I've been telling Second he needs to build around his.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Odd how the GoPs never mention investor dividendz or executiv pay having an inflationary effect. Its az if an unlimited amount uv money can go to the rich without any penalty on sosiety at all.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

Huge effect. Add to that all the bonuses and golden parachutes that they get even if they were complete failures.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 5:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Odd how the GoPs never mention investor dividendz or executiv pay having an inflationary effect. Its az if an unlimited amount uv money can go to the rich without any penalty on sosiety at all.

In between 1978 and 2014, inflation-adjusted CEO pay increased by almost 1,000%. Meanwhile, typical workers in the U.S. saw a pay raise of just 11% during that same period.

In 2014, the ratio between average American CEO pay and worker pay was 303-to-1. The 1965 ratio was 20-to-1.

http://fortune.com/2015/06/22/ceo-vs-worker-pay/

SECOND

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 5:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I do, and I explained it. I'm well aware that union pay goes up with minimum wage increases. That's an altogether separate problem that needs to be addressed. Not a reason not to increase minimum wage.

You haven't once addressed what I"m getting at. Which is you better build that moat around your house that I've been telling Second he needs to build around his.

I would like to see that revolt. The revolts of the 1960's were a good thing for the country, but I don't think workers and the unemployed and the poor will revolt today. I'd love to be proved wrong, but what we will probably get is a revolt at the polls in 2020 and four more years of Trump. The battle cry in the Presidential election of 1972 was "Why change Dicks in the middle of a screw? Nixon in 72!" We know how that election came out, don't we.

I think it appropriate when discussing Nixon to include art titled "I Swallowed A Bug" by Jerantino. The art was posted today.
www.deviantart.com/art/I-Swallowed-A-Bug-729499738

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Odd how the GoPs never mention investor dividendz or executiv pay having an inflationary effect.
Huge effect. Add to that all the bonuses and golden parachutes that they get even if they were complete failures.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

I will ask you to stay on topic.
What is the Inflation-causing effect of Investor Dividends, or Executive Pay? What is the cause-and-effect relationship?

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Not sure if you are intentionally avoiding the question
Yes I am. It's irrelevant.
Quote:
You seem to be decrying the effects of inflation, but your solution is to ramp up inflation by Increasing Minimum Wage?
I know what you're getting at.
I am fair certain you do not.
I do, and I explained it. I'm well aware that union pay goes up with minimum wage increases.

No, you did not explain it previously.
Are you now admitting that you understand that Union Pay Schedules are tied to the Federal Minimum Wage?
If the Minimum Wage is increased by 100%, like from $7.50/hr to $15/hr, then the Minimum Union Scale goes up also. If the base Union Wage Rate is 20% above, then it went from $9 to $18. The tiers of the Union Scale above that base also are boosted by percentage, depending upon Contract Language. So the $30/hr becomes $60/hr. The non-Union wages remain about 80% of the Union Wage, so $24 becomes $48/hr.
This is a fairly simple and circular formula, all predicated on Minimum Wage Increase.
The Minimum Wage worker gets $7.50 more per hour, the bottom rung Union worker gets $9 more per hour, the higher tier gets $30 more per hour, the non-Union worker gets $24 more per hour. So, which of those has the greater increase in buying power? It it clear that the Minimum Wage worker now has their low buying power made even worse, by inflating the wages of everybody else.
If that wasn't simple enough for you, then understand that the Minimum Wage worker has the least likely opportunity for overtime. So 40 hours per week moves them from $300/wk to $600/wk. The worker at the base of the Union Schedule is more likely to get opportunity for up to 20 hours at Time-and-a-half ($270 to $540) and perhaps 15 hours of Double Time ($270 to $540) per week. So from $900/wk to $1,800/wk. Hours beyond that are usually at far higher rates than Double Time. The higher tier Union worker with the same overtime opportunities will go from $3,000/wk to $6,000/wk.
So the Minimum Wage worker who whined for the Increase of $300 per week is competing in the economic market place with those who the Increase garnered $900/wk (possibly for the same work) or $3,000/wk for the semi-skilled. Who do you REALLY think is the winner there? And who just chopped off their foot? For example, housing rents are not going to stay stagnant for long, with between $300 and $3,000 extra per week floating around (merely among Wage workers), so who do you think will be getting the best living accommodations, and who will need to find a cheaper place?

There are standard business models, which largely are similar across industries. Let's take Restaurants, where many Minimum Wage workers are oft employed. To calculate how much must be charged for the product, how to price the food, they know that of all the income, 1/3 should go to the payroll, meaning the costs of having and paying the employee. From that base reference, all else follows. IIRC, the material cost (the food) should be kept under 1/3. And the remaining 1/3 goes to business expenses like rent, utilities, taxes, maintenance, other overhead. By payroll, this means that if the worker "earns" $7.50/hr, then each hour generally costs the employer $15/hr. So very simply, what the worker earns is 1/6 of the factor for cost of the product.
So if the employee doubled their pay-per-hour at a place that serves $3 hamburgers, the price must be sextupled to $18 burgers in order for the restaurant to not go out of business.
So the Minimum Wage worker who whined for their Wage to be doubled now has all purchasing expenses multiplied times 6. Did the whiner benefit themselves, or just cut off their other foot?

All based upon Minimum Wage Increase. Every greedy worker who is not you hopes

SECOND

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

So the Minimum Wage worker who whined for the Increase of $300 per week is competing in the economic market place with those who the Increase garnered $900/wk (possibly for the same work) or $3,000/wk for the semi-skilled. Who do you REALLY think is the winner there? And who just chopped off their foot?

JewelStaiteFan, you are recapitulating plantation economics: We can't pay the slaves more than food, clothing and shelter because that will cause an inflationary spiral in the cost of cotton and destroy the Confederacy's economy based on slaves working at the absolute minimum wage. Our dear slaves "just chopped off their foot" if we planters can't sell our bales of cotton because the price is too high.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tuesday, February 6, 2018 11:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Are you now admitting that you understand that Union Pay Schedules are tied to the Federal Minimum Wage?

Did I ever argue it? It's irrelevant to my argument and it's an excuse to do nothing until it's too late.

Please show me where I said to raise the minimum wage to $15/hr. I've never once said that. In fact, I've argued loudly against it because it would be too great a shock to the system.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Wednesday, February 7, 2018 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Are you now admitting that you understand that Union Pay Schedules are tied to the Federal Minimum Wage?
Did I ever argue it? It's irrelevant

Please show me where I said to raise the minimum wage to $15/hr. I've never once said that.

$15/hr was an example, and it has been widely proposed and endorsed.
Regardless of the amount, Minimum Wage Increase is the root of the same circular formula resulting in the Minimum Wage worker losing buying power.
You are merely saying you want to more gradually put Minimum Wage workers out of work, back on their couch playing games.

JO753

Wednesday, February 7, 2018 2:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
What is the Inflation-causing effect of Investor Dividends, or Executive Pay? What is the cause-and-effect relationship?

The premis uv minimum waje earnerz getting more money automaticly cauzing inflation iz based on the idea that prise uv the goodz and servisez they provide will haf to go up the same amount.

Wut if insted, the upper manajment all the way up to the CEO get less pay to make up for the increased labor cost?

How many burger flipper salaryz duz the McDonaldz CEO, CFO, Prezidentz, VPz, etc etc etc (there are duzenz uv titlez and ranks) equal? All the grossly overpaid peeps who hav next to nothing to do with getting that burger into your handz. Suppoze we cap executiv pay at 2,000,000$.

This goez for every company in the supply chain also.

Then, wut if McDonaldz gets off the stock market? Wut happenz to all the money that wuz being given to investorz? (who hav absolutely nothing to do with getting you your Big Mac)

Wut do you propoze to do with all that money?

I think the real workerz coud get a pretty good boost to their pay AND the price uv the food coud go way down!

JSF, I dont watch Fox very often. Just occasionally look in on Hannity or Carlson to see how they are spinning the latest Trump atrosity, but I think its next to impossible for them to hav hidden the welth gap problem from their fanz all theze yirz. So you must hav herd about the top 1% owning more than the bottom 90%.

How do you think that happened?

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.7532020.com

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