Dow @ 20K. Time to jump off!

POSTED BY: JO753
UPDATED: Friday, April 4, 2025 13:08
VIEWED: 120054
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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, January 6, 2018 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?
I don't know which downside you're thinking of J0, but I did think of one for people putting the money in that have a low income. It's actually something that would effect me most likely.

I thought I was going to put enough in to maximize my company match of 6%, but that depends entirely on whether or not I'm making more money next year.

It's foolish to lock my money into something that will have a 10% penalty to get a 6% match if the money would have been less than what would be taxed federally.

I'll only put in for the 6% match if all 6% of that is income above $12,000 next year. That way if I take it out early, I'm just paying the taxes I avoided when I pay the 10% penalty.

(NOTE: I don't gamble anymore. Any money I put in would be strictly to dodge taxes and to get extra money from my employer. It would be put in the lowest earning funds with the absolute least amount of risk. Anything with zero risk/zero return would be ideal).

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Almost. If you put 10,000 in a year ago in a moderate risk fund, mirroring DJIA, it would be about $13,330 now. A 10% penalty for pulling out $10K would be $1,000 - gettibg you $9,000 of original money plus leaving $3,330 incthe fund. Or pull out $11,111 and get $10,000 plus still have $2,199 in the fund. Or pull out all $13,330 and get $11,997 after penalty.
Plus if your company matched $10,000 you still have that $13,330 remaining in your fund - essentially $15,330 or more of free money after your transactions, set to grow more until you retire. (I think most matching plans do not allow withdrawal before retirement of the matching funds, just what you put in.) All from a $10,000 back and forth transaction.
How would those be undesirable?

From your above post, at least majority of Americans have priorities, having their gamephone, latest DVDs, latest games, and the best chocolates or Cheetos.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, January 6, 2018 7:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Arent you going to explain the downside, JSF?

downside to avoiding taxes, even with a no-risk fund?
Libtards will become despondent about not contributing their fair share to Government Waste, corruption and Abuse. But they'll make up for it by becoming dependent upon free Government handouts, just like they've always hoped for.

SECOND

Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

(NOTE: I don't gamble anymore. Any money I put in would be strictly to dodge taxes and to get extra money from my employer. It would be put in the lowest earning funds with the absolute least amount of risk. Anything with zero risk/zero return would be ideal).

I see why you think least risk is best, but the second richest man in the world, who made most of it in the US stock market, has a slightly different take on how the market actually works: This is illustrated by the bet's outcome over its first year, 2008. Buffett's S&P 500 index fund lost 37% . . .

Still, Buffett's logic holds true in any market. Some funds will win, some funds will lose, but the fee structure puts investors at an inherent disadvantage. It's also worth pointing out that the market historically has had far more positive than negative years -- over the past 50 years, the S&P 500 has produced a negative total return just 10 times -- so the hedging "advantage" doesn't come into play too often. Read the details at
www.fool.com/investing/2018/01/03/warren-buffett-just-officially-won-h
is-million-dol.aspx

Or here: www.cnbc.com/2018/01/03/why-warren-buffett-says-index-funds-are-the-be
st-investment.html

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:08 PM

Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.

My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

SECOND

Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.

My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

When the market crashed in 2008, I got really lucky that my company was bought out and froze our accounts in the transition to a new 401k provider for 3 months. It happened only weeks before the bottom fell out. Before that I had 4+ years of 22-30% gains. I would have lost almost 50% of what was in there if I stayed in for a year.

After the crash, I got laid off, then I bought a rehab/foreclosure for little over 1/3rd what the previous owner paid for it in 2005. Now it is valued at over 60% more of what I paid for it.

As of now, it's already paid for itself in the rent/mortgage that I haven't been paying on it since I bought it. So.... essentially I still have all of that money, but it's just somewhere else now. It also pays dividends every month because of the rent/mortgage that I'm not paying somebody else.
Not only that, but I didn't have any income to invest since 2008. By sometime in the 1st or 2nd quarter of 2018 I should have finally earned what i used to in a single year before the late 2009 layoff.

Dare I say that at least in the micro-cosom of my insignificant life, my returns beat that of even Warren Buffet. Strictly percentage-wise speaking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

When the market crashed in 2008, I got really lucky that my company was bought out and froze our accounts in the transition to a new 401k provider for 3 months. It happened only weeks before the bottom fell out. Before that I had 4+ years of 22-30% gains. I would have lost almost 50% of what was in there if I stayed in for a year.

After the crash, I got laid off, then I bought a rehab/foreclosure for little over 1/3rd what the previous owner paid for it in 2005. Now it is valued at over 60% more of what I paid for it.

As of now, it's already paid for itself in the rent/mortgage that I haven't been paying on it since I bought it. So.... essentially I still have all of that money, but it's just somewhere else now. It also pays dividends every month because of the rent/mortgage that I'm not paying somebody else.
Not only that, but I didn't have any income to invest since 2008. By sometime in the 1st or 2nd quarter of 2018 I should have finally earned what i used to in a single year before the late 2009 layoff.

Dare I say that at least in the micro-cosom of my insignificant life, my returns beat that of even Warren Buffet. Strictly percentage-wise speaking.

Do Right, Be Right. :)

if you had stayed in from Feb 2008 to Mar 2009, the market lost more than 50%, the Dow dropping from about 14,000 to under 6,000.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Buffet's life and living is gambling. He's really good at it.

I just got lucky. I made a killing in the market. Especially in the small window of time I was investing. I did better than the DOW has done since Trump was president.

My home is paid for. Once I upgrade a few things and get a new used car that I can rely on again, most of my money is going into my house. If I had a crystal ball, it would be a different story.

Do Right, Be Right. :)
Warren Buffett knows that when the stock market is crashing is a great time to buy more of a S&P 500 index mutual fund. The chickens are running away and hawks swoop down to pick up stock cheaply. Eventually, since you are not taking the money out your 401K until you retire, the stock market will recover. You would look like a genius if you had steadily invested your money as the market crashed in 2008. You will be a genius if you continue to invest during the next market crash, even if all the chickens squawk to take your money out of the S&P 500 Index fund and place it in a nice, safe moneymarket fund.

Wisdom does not beget genius.
My friends and co-workers got out in Feb 2008 and gained about 3%/APR until buying back in around March 2009. Not all of them are genius.
You are saying it takes a genius to invest in Feb 2008 and watch it fall more than 50% in value. And do so every month. Buying in summer 2008 would still get you a 30-40% loss. Buying in fall or winter would still have you lose 20%. That would be as absolutely the dumbest genius I have ever heard of, let alone met. Unless you mean Libtard Genius, where I would need to agree with you.
It was much wiser to pull out with 90-95% of the prior maximum value, then get back in when values were about 43% of prior max, then let values grow by about 300% as of a month ago.
I would grant that a genius is one who got out in Oct 2007 instead of Feb 2008, but I don't know anybody who did that intentionally for that purpose.
I felt I did well to gain 35% between Feb 2008 and Mar 2009 while the market was dropping.

AURAPTOR

Saturday, January 6, 2018 9:48 PM

Wow.. this thread hasn't aged very well, has it?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

SECOND

Saturday, January 6, 2018 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Wow.. this thread hasn't aged very well, has it?

A debate over his mental competence is not one that Trump should want. He should be talking relentlessly about the rising stock market, the economy, the companies giving their employees bonuses because of the tax cut he shepherded to passage.

Instead, Trump was tweeting on Saturday about how very, incredibly, stupendously smart he is.

"Throughout my life, my two greatest assets have been mental stability and being, like, really smart," tweeted Trump. "Crooked Hillary Clinton also played these cards very hard and, as everyone knows, went down in flames. I went from VERY successful businessman, to top T.V. Star to President of the United States (on my first try). I think that would qualify as not smart, but genius....and a very stable genius at that!"

Debating whether he is a) smart b) mentally competent or c) in a state of mental deterioration is a stone-cold loser for him. Strategic politicians fight only on ground that is favorable for them. Or they steer conversations or debate to ground that is favorable to them. And the "I am really a very smart genius" fight is not one that has a "win" for Trump.

Why fight it then? Because Trump's secret strategy is that there is no strategy.

For people who doubt it, remember this: Trump never planned his days as a businessman. As he explains on the first page of "The Art of the Deal," he liked to let the day come to him -- no planned meetings, no set agendas. Just let the day unfold and sort of wing it.

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