Wonder Woman

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 29, 2017 11:30
VIEWED: 8016
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JEWELSTAITEFAN

Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Wonder Woman’s dueling origin stories are explained at:
www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/7/15740202/wonder-woman-origin-story-amazon
s-marston-explained

In 2011, DC Comics instituted a relaunch of 52 of its titles called the “The New 52,” which essentially undid those titles’ previous storylines and “reset” them at a new starting point; it was characterized at the time as a way to make the comics more accessible to new readers. In writer Brian Azzarello and artist Cliff Chiang’s New 52 run, Wonder Woman’s origin is changed.

The movie gives BOTH origin stories, the old and the new. The movie leaves the final interpretation of Diana’s origin to its audience, and in doing so reflects a debate over Diana’s origin that’s been going on in Wonder Woman comic books over the past several years.

What are the 2 different ones?

SECOND

Thursday, June 8, 2017 8:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Wonder Woman’s dueling origin stories are explained at:
www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/7/15740202/wonder-woman-origin-story-amazon
s-marston-explained

In 2011, DC Comics instituted a relaunch of 52 of its titles called the “The New 52,” which essentially undid those titles’ previous storylines and “reset” them at a new starting point; it was characterized at the time as a way to make the comics more accessible to new readers. In writer Brian Azzarello and artist Cliff Chiang’s New 52 run, Wonder Woman’s origin is changed.

The movie gives BOTH origin stories, the old and the new. The movie leaves the final interpretation of Diana’s origin to its audience, and in doing so reflects a debate over Diana’s origin that’s been going on in Wonder Woman comic books over the past several years.
What are the 2 different ones?

Diana believed what her mother had told her — that

Select to view spoiler:

she was made out of clay and Zeus had given her life by magic. It is immaculate conception squared with no biological mother or father.

That is the old origin story from before 2011. The new origin story after 2011 is that

Select to view spoiler:

Zeus had sex with her mother, Hippolyta, and created a child.

And if that’s the case, then it’s not clear what else the Amazons lied about to Diana in the movie.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:16 PM

To reply to you reposting JSF's spoiler below:

Select to view spoiler:

As I correctly stated in my spoiler, only using different words, Diana was created from clay and Zeus breathed life into her as a gift to mankind, specifically to combat Ares. She was given to Queen Hippolyta and the Amazons, according to the film's legend, for safekeeping until the time would come for Diana to face Ares. Queen Hippolyta raised her as her own daughter and she never told Diana the full story of her origin and why she was created. As an aside, the funny thing about the myth of the Amazons is that the Amazon region of South America got it's name from the legend of the Warrior Women of Greek origins. They come from -

In Greek mythology, the Amazons (Greek: ?µa???e?, Amazónes, singular ?µa???, Amazon) were a race of woman warriors. Herodotus reported that they were related to the Scythians (an Iranian people) and placed them in a region bordering Scythia in Sarmatia (modern territory of Ukraine).

The region now known as the Amazon in South America, was so named because of a little known Spanish Conquistador named Francisco de Orellana, when he:

reached the Amazon River (Amazonas in Spanish), naming it after a tribe of warlike women he claimed to have encountered and fought on the Nhamundá River, a tributary of the Amazon.

Select to view spoiler:

In the movie they do show Queen Hippolyta holding a lump of clay and it forming into a baby's shape, and I assume this was true within the film's legend.
And she did mention that she was built or imbued with "gifts" to defeat Ares, but within the film's story she told Diana that the "Godkiller" was the sword

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Select to view spoiler:
Ares was the child of Zeus and Hera.
Diana was the creation of Zeus, the King of the Gods, IIRC. That would imply she was more powerful than Ares.
Not sure of the source you are using. The film clearly stated that Hippolyta was not Diana's mother. Diana was a gift from Zeus to the Amazon women (residing nowhere near the Amazon.) Diana was the Secret Weapon which Zeus created, to be safekept by Queen Hippolyta and the Amazon women, IIR the film's story correctly.

Select to view spoiler:
hmmm maybe I wasn't paying super close attention to the exact detials in the movie because in the comics "No longer a clay figure brought to life by the magic of the gods, she is, instead, a demi-goddess and the natural-born daughter of Hippolyta and Zeus." - wikipedia. When they said Zeus was her father I figured they were going with the current comic origin of Wonder Woman. Were they explicit about how Zeus "gave" the amazons Diana? I know they said it was one of his last acts, but I thought they sorta glossed over the details.

SHINYGOODGUY

Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:31 PM

I imagine that in the film they went with the current story so as to make it more family friendly, and thereby get more butts into the movie theater. I saw a family with two young girls enter the theater minutes before it's start.

At a certain point in the movie, showing a PG-13 moment, the girls squealed in reaction. I wasn't sure what that meant, but my first thought was embarrassment.
You really didn't see anything but it was somewhat suggestive. I wondered if the male with them explained about the scene, but I was too busy watching the movie to notice.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Wonder Woman’s dueling origin stories are explained at:
www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/7/15740202/wonder-woman-origin-story-amazon
s-marston-explained

In 2011, DC Comics instituted a relaunch of 52 of its titles called the “The New 52,” which essentially undid those titles’ previous storylines and “reset” them at a new starting point; it was characterized at the time as a way to make the comics more accessible to new readers. In writer Brian Azzarello and artist Cliff Chiang’s New 52 run, Wonder Woman’s origin is changed.

The movie gives BOTH origin stories, the old and the new. The movie leaves the final interpretation of Diana’s origin to its audience, and in doing so reflects a debate over Diana’s origin that’s been going on in Wonder Woman comic books over the past several years.
What are the 2 different ones?
Diana believed what her mother had told her — that
Select to view spoiler:
she was made out of clay and Zeus had given her life by magic. It is immaculate conception squared with no biological mother or father.
That is the old origin story from before 2011. The new origin story after 2011 is that
Select to view spoiler:
Zeus had sex with her mother, Hippolyta, and created a child.
And if that’s the case, then it’s not clear what else the Amazons lied about to Diana in the movie.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Thursday, June 8, 2017 6:20 PM

Diana said it in her opening dialog: "What one does when faced with the Truth is more difficult than you think. I learned this the hard way, long, long time ago." That is open to interpretation and vague enough for a comic book movie. To its credit, Wonder Woman slyly doesn’t pick one view of Diana’s origin, and what it means for the character, over the other.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I imagine that in the film they went with the current story so as to make it more family friendly, and thereby get more butts into the movie theater. I saw a family with two young girls enter the theater minutes before it's start.

At a certain point in the movie, showing a PG-13 moment, the girls squealed in reaction. I wasn't sure what that meant, but my first thought was embarrassment.
You really didn't see anything but it was somewhat suggestive. I wondered if the male with them explained about the scene, but I was too busy watching the movie to notice.

SGG

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Friday, June 9, 2017 5:18 AM

Enjoyable reading - thanks everybody.

I am also Wondering about the timeline. It may be all mythology, and happened around the beginning of time.
However, let's consider Diana may have been late teens or 20's in the film when Trevor's plane interlopes, circa 1917. Played by 32 year old Gal Gadot. (She won Miss Israel 2004, then served in Israeli Defense Force 2005-2007. I did not know she started modeling after her 2007 Maxim shoot for "Women of the Israeli Army." BTW, her page at Wikipedia could not be located until I reloaded a fourth time - must be busy. I liked her exchange with Snyder regarding the shoot in BvS where she smirked and he asked why.)

Anyhow, does this mean that her clay was formed around 1885-1899? If Ares fighting Zeus was represented to humans as a great war, which war during that time period do we think was Ares' doing?
Or does nobody care?

SECOND

Friday, June 9, 2017 6:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Enjoyable reading - thanks everybody.

Anyhow, does this mean that her clay was formed around 1885-1899? If Ares fighting Zeus was represented to humans as a great war, which war during that time period do we think was Ares' doing?

Or does nobody care?

Wonder Woman was introduced in All Star Comics #8 (December 1941). Really her first war was WWII. For some Hollywood reason, the suits bumped the movie story backwards in time to WWI. Maybe they thought the earlier war was more picturesque? Or maybe it is just arbitrary and capricious meddling? In another part of the movie, some movie executive's whim was to cut an important scene. The director insisted the scene not be cut for very good reasons: www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/8/15742716/wonder-woman-script-second-act

Some of these Hollywood executives, believing they are as creative as writers and directors, will make bad changes to good stories. It is the hazard of “Too many cooks spoil the broth.” Remember Firefly and the rush to write a replacement for first episode because FOX didn't want to start where the story should have started?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, June 10, 2017 12:39 PM

Agreed. A big part of the "Hollywood" problem are the suits, the studios test everything to death and want only what they think brings in the cashy money.

Now, grant you, there are some 'creative' types that screw the pooch every so often
when it comes to storytelling, that the execs feel that they can "improve" a film.
Still though there are those that command a large amount of respect - artistically speaking. I remember Kubrick getting a whole lot of respect, although he was oft criticized, he still was given a wide berth.

I wonder how Joss is getting along these days?

In the case of WW, I'm glad Jenkins won out regarding that scene it is utterly iconic and will give Jenkins a new found respect, at least, I would think so.
Brilliantly shot and directed. Good on you Patty Jenkins (as a film aficionado, I love that scene). In the theater I was in (6:00 p.m. show) the 3/4 filled room cheered and applauded, it was inspiring. There have been a handful of times in my life where I have been in a theater where folks applauded - I remember 3 of them -
The original Star Wars (Episode IV), Dreamgirls, and Wonder Woman. The first two were at the end of the movie, but WW was in the middle during the No Man's Land battle scene...

Select to view spoiler:

when we first see Diana as Wonder Woman in full costume/battlegear

It was Awesome!

That's one for the artists!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Enjoyable reading - thanks everybody.

Anyhow, does this mean that her clay was formed around 1885-1899? If Ares fighting Zeus was represented to humans as a great war, which war during that time period do we think was Ares' doing?

Or does nobody care?
Wonder Woman was introduced in All Star Comics #8 (December 1941). Really her first war was WWII. For some Hollywood reason, the suits bumped the movie story backwards in time to WWI. Maybe they thought the earlier war was more picturesque? Or maybe it is just arbitrary and capricious meddling? In another part of the movie, some movie executive's whim was to cut an important scene. The director insisted the scene not be cut for very good reasons: www.vox.com/culture/2017/6/8/15742716/wonder-woman-script-second-act

Some of these Hollywood executives, believing they are as creative as writers and directors, will make bad changes to good stories. It is the hazard of “Too many cooks spoil the broth.” Remember Firefly and the rush to write a replacement for first episode because FOX didn't want to start where the story should have started?

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SHINYGOODGUY

Saturday, June 10, 2017 1:36 PM

Wonder Woman review by Kevin Smith - Hilarious and good

SPOILER ALERT - SPOILER ALERT - SPOILER ALERT - SPOILER ALERT

At 11:15 they discuss the scene Second referred to in her post, the No Man's Land scene. Listen as they break it down.

At 19:30 they get into a very good discussion about character development, in particular villains, and how it's important to the struggle of the main character/hero and to the overall story/film.

These stuck out to me in this review.

SGG

AURAPTOR

Saturday, June 10, 2017 8:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

* Why do we have to wait until well over 1/2 through the movie to hear WW's theme music kick in? As she starts to finally kick ass , ... and why wasn't it set up earlier in the movie? Stuff like that, I dunno, just seems like it sort a just appears, out of no where, and now , when ever you see her in a trialer, that theme music cranks up...

Tired now. Nite.

Man, sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who sees things a certain way, or ask odd ball questions, and then this happens !

It makes perfect sense ! Her theme music is even more awesome than I knew ! Man, I really dig learning about stuff like this !!

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