Aetna to pull out of ObamaCare ENTIRELY by 2018
POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 30, 2025 11:58
VIEWED: 9280
PAGE 5 of 8
Quote:It ALL rings a bell.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Siggy, just curious, but were you even born in the USA ? If so , were you never taught anything of the Revolutionary period, the Founders, the Federalist Papers... anything like that ring a bell ?
I've certainly read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and parts of the Federalist papers.
I read the foundational philosopher on which much of the Founding Father's thoughts were based....The Social Contract by Jean-Jacques Rousseau. https://www.amazon.com/Social-Contract-Jean-Jacques-Rousseau/dp/149617
268X
I read The Founding Fathers by ME Bradford which even JO thought was a worthwhile read. https://www.amazon.com/Founding-Fathers-Framers-Constitution-Revised/d
p/0700606572
Most of the discussions refer to the relationship between people and government or people and the church ... a reasonable POV because at the time absolute monarchies were the form of government, the churches were very powerful. But very little discussion about the relationship of people and corporations (the FF were mostly against corporations) or people and banks or people and people. There's been a lot of discussion about what "freedom" means or whether or not it even exists at all. I would like to know what YOU mean.
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"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Siggy, just curious, but were you even born in the USA ? If so , were you never taught anything of the Revolutionary period, the Founders, the Federalist Papers... anything like that ring a bell ?
Well.
I was thinking of mentioning if maybe you wish children were educated in American Public schools. But Siggy seems to represent a severe schism which I did not know was so deeply embedded. I had thought her more educated or mature.
But you have laid out the void in her foundation. How can somebody bridge such a gap? I conjure some form of extreme radical sect of education was at fault.
I had also conjured that many Millenials and such might think that the Declaration of Independence was written after seeing the film Braveheart - that nobody else had considered the concept of Freedom and it's meaning. For William Wallace and many others enslaved around the world, the only Freedom they might strive for is death, and foregoing freedom for the mere ability to exist, stay alive, is the only other choice.
Perhaps Siggy is quibbling about the difference between Inalienable Rights and Unalienable Rights. Some sources differentiate the definitions as "Un-" being incapable of being alienated (sold or transferred), and "In-" being not capable of being alienated WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE ONE POSSESSING THE RIGHTS. Many references seem to interchange these terms, depending partly whether American English, British English, King's English, Common English, or translations to or from another language.
Inalienable was used in Declaration of Independence drafts by Jefferson and John Adams, as well as inscribed upon the Jefferson Memorial, but Unalienable was used in the final version of the DoI.
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Myself, I find that people are most easily bamboozled by words which they FEEL deeply but don't actually understand.
Freedom, hope, and god, are examples.
We go oversees to kill people in foreign countries because ... 'freedom'. We donate to or support people because ... 'hope' (and sometimes 'change'). We justify what we do because ... 'god'.
If people demanded an exact explanation as to how, specifically, their cooperation was going to create a particular result - instead of settling for emotional but vague words like freedom, hope, (and change), and god - we'd be a lot better off.
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Quote:OK.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:It ALL rings a bell.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Siggy, just curious, but were you even born in the USA ? If so , were you never taught anything of the Revolutionary period, the Founders, the Federalist Papers... anything like that ring a bell ?
I've certainly read the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and parts of the Federalist papers.
Most of the discussions refer to the relationship between people and government
Quote:
or people and the church
Wow. Between people and the Church. Are you not missing the part about between the government and the Church, and confusing this important division with "people and Church?" The Declaration was for Independence from ENGLAND (not France, or other European Governments influenced by The Social Contract), which had declared itself to BE The Church (helloooo - anybody heard of Communism, Socialism, etc?), and the ideals were to disentangle Colonists from the subjugation of a pre-assigned religion from their Government/King.
There seems to be some missing component in your understanding, which may reveal why others who are taught as you were cannot comprehend the Freedom of Religion.
Quote:OK.
... a reasonable POV because at the time absolute monarchies were the form of government,
Quote:Really?
the churches were very powerful.
Like how the Church of Rome (The Papists) was able to reign throughout the British Empire?
And English subjects were free to associate with the Roman Church of Christianity (post-HenryVIII)?
Quote:because corporations WERE the Government (hellooooo - remember Communism, Socialism)
But very little discussion about the relationship of people and corporations (the FF were mostly against corporations)
Quote:because banks WERE the Government
or people and banks
Quote:
or people and people. There's been a lot of discussion about what "freedom" means or whether or not it even exists at all. I would like to know what YOU mean.
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Quote:Are you talking about England ca 1776 and the American revolution? Because 'communism' and 'socialism' were 100 years in the future in 1776.
because corporations WERE the Government (hellooooo - remember Communism, Socialism)
I've been trying to follow the conversation, but your posts are so scrambled, I have NO idea WHAT you're trying to say. This is only the latest example. Your other posts were just as uninterpretable.
You seem to be referring to something. How about you rephrase your argument with some rough timelines attached?
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Quote:
But very little discussion about the relationship of people and corporations (the FF were mostly against corporations) or people and banks or people and people
Because they realized the far greater evil was that of govt impeding on the lives of men.Unlike govt's, who have the force of power to enforce their will , corporations are actually quite limited in what they can do.
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Quote:Back in Jefferson's day, if you didn't want to work for someone else, you could head out to the wilderness and try and make a living for yourself, by yourself.
corporations are actually quite limited in what they can do
Today, no one can escape the power of the corporations. If it wasn't for the government making sure we don't outright starve to death on the street, our lives would be entirely at their mercy. Work for them - or die. We work at their sufferance, buy their goods at their prices, and even live by their laws the government writes for their benefit.
We live in a global company town. I think their power is near complete.
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Government and Corporations are pretty much the same thing. Just enough to separate them to make it look like separate entities on paper.
Trying to live outside of them isn't exactly living in the Savage Land yet, but we are quickly heading to that Brave New World.
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Quote:Maybe it's not 'government' per se, but OUR government. And since we live in a democracy, its OUR people voting that way.
Government and Corporations are pretty much the same thing.
Originally posted by G:
"I coined the slogan "We Suck!"© many years ago."
G is an avowed Putin-loving, pro-Russian, anti-American troll.
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Assuming that you believe in the long run your vote actually counts for anything. I think they've done a fine job of allowing us to believe that we have any power at all, when really we don't.
Most of us are fine with that. Most of us don't want the responsibility of freedom and would never do anything about not really having much unless it became blatantly oppressive. I didn't realize that when I was young and that sort of stuff made me paranoid.
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