How You Could Have Had My Vote
POSTED BY: Jasonzzz
UPDATED: Thursday, November 18, 2004 03:26
VIEWED: 5131
PAGE 3 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
No the days of trying to talk to Rep's / Conservatives and reason with them are over its sink or swim !!
So you choose to repeat your mistakes again next time...and everybody loses again?
I'm really not trying to argue with you. I'm trying to point out a few things I noticed, as a reasonably uninvolved observer, that might be improved in the Democrats political discourse during the last election cycle, especially in the cyberworld of chat rooms and bulletin boards.
1. It's not a debate, it's a sale. You aren't after points, you want to change the other person's mind, to get them to start considering your point of view. Argument does not work for this. it just increases resistance.
2. Find common ground. If someone agrees with you on nine points and disagrees on the tenth, talk about the points of commonality. maybe if they see you're reasonable they'll consider the final point, or at least decide that the common points are enough to deserve their vote. Don't spend all your time hammering on that one point until they run away.
3. Don't insult religion. First, there are a lot of Liberal people of faith. Don't lump them in with the ultra-right wing folk. Second, find those Liberal people of faith and ask them how they reconcile their religions beliefs with their political/social beliefs. Use this in your "sales pitch" to the undecided.
4. Lose the "Bush is the center of all Evil in the Universe" attitude, at least in public. It is really off-putting to people who aren't as emotional as you about the issue. Talk instead about policies, remembering you're selling, not debating. If you want to have private "Hate Bush" sessions with the other true believers, go ahead.
5. Do something about Michael Moore. Sure, you love him, but he scares or turns off a lot of people who might otherwise be open to your views.
6. Get out of the gun control business. The cost/benefit for this is way lower than any other issue. You won't lose any Dem faithful, and you will pick up otherwise liberal folk who are real single-issue about keeping their guns.
Just some suggestions.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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No its too late for that Dem/Progressives have talked to Reps until they were blue in the face all to be called paranoid or crazy..
its too late..so now we're all going to have to swallow a bitter pill and hope that it doesn't kill us
I have a feeling that the rep/conservatives minds will change..but sometimes people have to learn the hard way..and unfortuantely for us all its going to be a hard lesson.
I have never insulted religion, I have respect for peoples beliefs..I don't care if someone believes that a rabbit and a turtle mated and and out of that came the earth..People have a right to their belifes
what I don't respect, is people who use religion as a tool much like this administration , or people who try to use religion to justify things they do, like disenfranchise people, or make them 2nd class citizens..I don't respect people who use religion as a sheild for their bigotry
I will not loose Bush is the center of evil..why should I his admistration is evil..so why should I loose that..
I go by what I see, and if the Bush administration does bad and evil things I'm not going to try and down play that to appeal to peoples senses Nope its not going to happen, I get what your saying but your under the impression that I'm trying to appeal to the consertives...those days are over..the time for reasoning and appealing is over.. now we are all going to have to deal with whats going to be unleashed on us
LOL
Micheal MOOre, I guess the truth is a scary thing, what would you have me do about Micheal Moore if he turns off alot of people they have a choice not to watch him..nobody is forcing anyone to view Mr. Moore.
Civilized societys don't need an arsenal of weapons, I understand that some people like to hunt..but maybe if this country worked on higher education..and put more value on human life and dignity maybe guns wouldn't be such an issue!
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Civilized societies do need weapons - they absolutely depend on them. Whether in the hands of the military, police, or individuals (myself for example) they keep the armed and uncivilized under control and civilization civilized.
I noticed that the good old sporting-use argument came up ("some people like to hunt"). This worked so poorly in the past that no gun control was mentioned at all this campaign - its a losing issue even watered down.
The whole "sporting use" thing was just putting words in the mouths of gun owners and then ridiculing it. For the record, none of my guns were designed for hunting, target shooting, or any other sorting purpose - they are all military and police firearms designed to shoot people. A bit uncomfortable to think about, but true.
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I'm not talking about the miltary, I'm talking about your average citazen, take us for example, we have so much crime its ridiculous compared with alot of other countries..,
This is not the days of the wild west, or when people needed to hunt for food most of the time, ..so I don't think most people need to be carrying pistols and oozies
IMO!!
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I got a question.
Now that we American's have abandoned the ole separation of church and state... what is the next move to make the American people forget about that supposed separation?
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Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
I got a question.
Now that we American's have abandoned the ole separation of church and state... what is the next move to make the American people forget about that supposed separation?
Interesting. How do you define "Separation of Church and State", and how do you consider that it has been abandoned?
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
No its too late for that Dem/Progressives have talked to Reps until they were blue in the face all to be called paranoid or crazy..
its too late..so now we're all going to have to swallow a bitter pill and hope that it doesn't kill us.
Okay. You have almost four years to convince just 5% of the voters in a few swing states that they need to vote for the Democrat in the 2008 election, and you could win. But you'd rather bitch and moan and make excuses. "Oh, they're all fundamentalist bigots.", "Oh, Diebold fixed the election.", "Oh, everyone who doesn't agree with us is just evil.", and on and on.
If you can't get over your self-pity and do something constructive, you deserve what you get. Enjoy it.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Can someone help me out? I can't seem to find "Seperation of Church and State" in the First Amendment. Not even one of the three words "separation", "church", or "state".
It must be in there - all my unionized, public school teachers told me so.
Oh, and my deepest apologies go out to all the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses I was a little curt with in the past. Having Kerry supporters come by made me realize that you guys are alright. So a friendly smile, snacks, and coffee (decaf alternatives too) will greet you the next time you darken my door.
(They really did get blue in the face.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
No its too late for that Dem/Progressives have talked to Reps until they were blue in the face all to be called paranoid or crazy..
its too late..so now we're all going to have to swallow a bitter pill and hope that it doesn't kill us.
Okay. You have almost four years to convince just 5% of the voters in a few swing states that they need to vote for the Democrat in the 2008 election, and you could win. But you'd rather bitch and moan and make excuses. "Oh, they're all fundamentalist bigots.", "Oh, Diebold fixed the election.", "Oh, everyone who doesn't agree with us is just evil.", and on and on.
If you can't get over your self-pity and do something constructive, you deserve what you get. Enjoy it.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
Speaking out and speaking truth isn't bitching, and I never said that everyone who doesn't agree with us is evil..no that would be ingnorant
The only thing I'm interested in is the truth..you see I don't care what the truth is, I just want to know it...some people can't handle the truth
so what you see as bitching , I see as speaking out
I liken it to a jalapano pepper..some people may love them some people may hate them some people maybe indifferent to them...but no matter what you feel about them you can't get a way from the truth and that is they are hot!!
no matter what you feel about the Bush administration..their are certain truths about them..people can deny it..ignore it..or they can be honest about it ..I'm being honest about it
its just like the so called religious right people ..I don't care that they vote for Bush..
But be honest about..don't hide behind relgion and use it as a sheild for the bigotry..just admit that they are bigots and they support the Bush administration..NOw thats honest and its not insulting!!
As for doing something about it, How do you know I'm not.
and selfpity..hardly
We are all sailing aboard the titanic, the only diffrence is some us know it and some of us don't!!
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Quote:
Can someone help me out? I can't seem to find "Seperation of Church and State" in the First Amendment. Not even one of the three words "separation", "church", or "state".
It must be in there - all my unionized, public school teachers told me so.
You need to look at the writings of the founding fathers- Jefferson, Madison, and so forth- where they write often and eloquently about the "wall of separation between the church and state". Jefferson refused to allow celebration of a religious holiday. It was very clear that the NEW government didn't want to follow the example of Henry VIII and the Church of England, or involve the nation in religious wars like Europe.
I've already posted a number of quotes and links on the topic, not going to re-look it up again. Just do a google search on "separation church state" amd it will pull up their writings.
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