What are America's interests?
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 2, 2026 17:48
VIEWED: 19030
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Going back to the title of the thread - and hopefully something actually on topic and not part of THUGGER's attempt to start a flame war - What are America's interests? - I'd say it depends on what you think is 'America'. Assuming 'America' is a political collection of people, with a political system that's supposed to be "of, by, and for the people", then 'America's' interests are the people's interests as a whole.
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
The whole quote is G responding to SIG. I just reposted it. So you suggesting G has a point about my indents, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), implying you noticed the same thing is, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), well funny.
Any suggestions, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), on how I can fix that.
You said you wanted to start anew with me. Then stop being disingenuous and try being more candid and sincere.
Quote:Meh. If you're going to make the same comments, the same attitude, and same dumb mistake and then swear at me for trying to help you correct a formatting problem in your posts, i'm just going to let that sleeping dog lie.
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
oic. i thought he was responding to you. Your quotes were effed on the last 50 or so posts. they all got mashed together. maybe formatting in your sig?
Bullshit
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Yeah, I know you'll flame this post, but you'd do the same if I said "That was brilliant THGRRI!" so what does it matter?
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Quote:
Originally posted by G:
That's why I haven't posted much on this topic - it seems pretty obvious what our interests are. We don't need 10,000 words on the subject.
- Honest wage for an honest day's work.
- a safe and healthy food supply within the financial means of every citizen
- well regulated banks and financial institutions who without regulations could bring down the economy.
- safety from local and international threats.
As a people?
We disagree, hence the arguing. Imho, the constitution is quite clear.
- safety from international threats.
- protection of 10 base rights.
- sovereignty of states.
- ability to move freely between states
that's where it ends
according to the constitution is all.
passed that? I think trump is dangerously fast and loose with deregulation, but i also think that in general regulation props up rather than restrains, industry
what the state of ny or ca wants is a different matter.
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A concatentation of ideas on the topic:
Quote:
- Honest wage for an honest day's work.
- a safe and healthy food supply within the financial means of every citizen
- well regulated banks and financial institutions who without regulations could bring down the economy.
- safety from local and international threats.
- safety from international threats.
- protection of 10 base rights.
- sovereignty of states.
- ability to move freely between states
that's where it ends
according to the constitution is all.
What about a clean environment? Other amendments to the Constitution? Equality of sexes before the law? (which some say isn't addressed by the Bill of Rights)
It seems to me that there is some confusion between the "interests of Americans" and the Federal government's role in accomplishing those interests. A distinction between "what" and "how" isn't being made. For example, it is in the interests of Swiss goat- and cow-herders to share mountain pastures (a commons). They COULD appeal to their national government to intervene, but choose to utilize a local cooperative structure instead. Just because there isn't a goat- and cow-herder's Constitutional clause doesn't eliminate pasturage as an interest.
Think broad-scope. Once goals are defined, mechanisms can be addressed.
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"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR IS A DEEP-STATE TROLL
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Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
The whole quote is G responding to SIG. I just reposted it. So you suggesting G has a point about my indents, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), implying you noticed the same thing is, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), well funny.
Any suggestions, ( sorry, I'm laughing to hard ), on how I can fix that.
You said you wanted to start anew with me. Then stop being disingenuous and try being more candid and sincere.Quote:Meh. If you're going to make the same comments, the same attitude, and same dumb mistake and then swear at me for trying to help you correct a formatting problem in your posts, i'm just going to let that sleeping dog lie.
Originally posted by THGRRI:Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
oic. i thought he was responding to you. Your quotes were effed on the last 50 or so posts. they all got mashed together. maybe formatting in your sig?
Bullshit
---------------------
Yeah, I know you'll flame this post, but you'd do the same if I said "That was brilliant THGRRI!" so what does it matter?
You claimed that 50 or more of my posts were effed ( Fucked up ),confusing. Therefore, don't make sense to you. Now you suggest it's a formatting error on my part. You cleaned it up but the assertion stands. You are essentially claiming my posts are confusing. I haven't even posted fifty times since your return here. That further implies to you, none of my posts make sense. Bullshit is the best way to answer your declaration.
Let's get right down to it. Your passive aggressive style won't fly with many of us here.
I suggest you go back and reread your posts. When I tell you your thoughts are fragmented. That most of your posts containing more than a few sentences, are peppered with thoughts that make no sense, it is me passive aggressively saying, you aren't bright enough to hang here.
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Signy
There are a few problems with social goals expressed as national interests.
Ultimately, society is a way to continue human population into the future. But that requirement is met with very minimal technology, levels of cooperation, or indeed humanity. (If that wasn't true you wouldn't see such a wide variety of societies, because all societies would be forced into common forms by common external circumstances.)
So, since one doesn't need to strictly bow to necessity in all things (just 2 very important ones: 1 - the continuation of generations one to the next and 2 - the maintenance of an environment that will support humans indefinitely into the future), there's a lot that's a matter of preference when it comes to discussing America's interests.
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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it is me passive aggressively saying, you aren't bright enough to hang here said the troll.
How did your beloved 'democratic' party fuck up so badly?
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Thgr, No, I said your formatting was, not the concept of your posts. The quotes were not showing up with indents. Which is why I reacted to the comment about indents.
Sig,
Add your own. I like the environment, but the EPA is a bunch of oil lobbyists who love fracking and hazmats int the drinking water. I think the citizens need the property rights to shut down anything contaminating or lower the viability or value of their property, a right they had up until the 1880s.
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So, is anyone ready to start discussing the goals we can all mostly agree on?
I realize that there will be a lot of disagreement on HOW to realize them, but can we at least see if we can head in the same direction? Or is everyone so consumed by partisanship and media shit-shows that this topic is going to be ignored ... again?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
America is an oligarchy
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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I changed the title of the post to add the ideas posted in A thread for Democrats Only.
The reason why I added to THIS thread is because SECOND accused me of not proposing anything.
Clearly, I have spent many words on discussing America's interests, starting from the interests of individuals (Maslow's hierarchy of needs), societal interests (society as an organism*: To reproduce/expand individual membership and reproduce the language, memes, and technology which bind the members into a functional whole. *This incorporates the possibility of social evolution) and national interests (a nation being that which is governed by a written set of laws and policies).
Many of my thoughts revolved around economics: the exchange of labor (goods and services) between members.
The discussion in "A thread for Democrats only" veered heavily into economic theory, which I will try to reproduce here in some reasonable format.
******
KIKI
Unlike you, SECOND understands that wealth is nearly always acquired through an unearned, undeserved fluke of external circumstances - having wealthy parents for example, or owning land that turns out to have resources buried underground. America is not a meritocracy. That's a fact you need to grasp if you want to live in reality.
But SECOND'S imagination is limited by his fears of poverty; and your imagination is limited by your blind ideology. You both assume that to lift everyone up, the wealthy must be made POOR. Instead, they need to be made SUFFICIENT and SECURE, as does everyone else. And their living needs to come from their work - their productive input to society; and not from family, or from control over the levers of power.
*****
JO753
Good post.
I mostly agree. The only differens being that earning money by working iz a consept that's dayz are numbered.
Assuming the current mess eventually gets scrapped, I think the only peepl who will be paid in the future beyond the normal standard credit will be athletes and artists.
*****
JSF
WTF?
*****
1KIKI
Quote:In other words, make the formerly rich into the poor. BTW, you aren't rich. The REALLY rich, the people Janet Yellen and Hillary Clinton care about, don't ever worry about it all being taken away or lost.
"Remove the resources and effectiveness of the most successful" (who you mistakenly assume are the 'most capable') and, as you imagine, replace them "with the average McDonald's or Walmart employee".
*****
JEWELSTAITEFAN
That was me pointing out the stupidity of second's concept. The "genius" was sarcasm.
*****
1KIKI
It's the assumptions you two make I have a problem with. Whether you agree it'll work or not, both you SECOND assume that to make poor people better off, rich people need to be made poor. You claim SECOND sees it as a viable solution while you think it'll fail. Neither of you seem to understand that there's a different way to get there, that doesn't involve anyone being poor.
*****
6IXSTRINGJACK
Quote:Well that kind of sounds like communism to me.
Originally posted by 1kiki:...Instead, they need to be made SUFFICIENT and SECURE, as does everyone else. And their living needs to come from their work - their productive input to society; and not from family, or from control over the levers of power.- KIKI
Good post.
I mostly agree. The only differens being that earning money by working iz a consept that's dayz are numbered.
Assuming the current mess eventually gets scrapped, I think the only peepl who will be paid in the future beyond the normal standard credit will be athletes and artists. - JO
I can't imagine we're going to be seeing an America where I'm getting paid to stock product overnight the same amount that a brain surgeon gets paid.
I do, however, believe that there could be a ton of benefits to a Basic Universal Income. That's $12,000 per year to everyone, regardless of race, sex, and class. Y
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