How You Could Have Had My Vote
POSTED BY: Jasonzzz
UPDATED: Thursday, November 18, 2004 03:26
VIEWED: 5131
PAGE 2 of 5
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
We could set up a "Cocoa for Food" program adminstered by the UN, I'm sure they'd be willing.
Go Ivory Coast. This Browncoats pulling for you.
H
"It's All About The Cocoa!!!"
I hear that Chirac is planning to give a no-bid contract for rebuilding the cocoa industry to a consortium of French chocolate makers, Halles d'Burton.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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This person has it wrong
Despite what the main stream media is reporting, most Democrates and Liberals/ Progressives aren't buying what they are selling.
Morals / Values
good gawd its a load of crap... something the right wingers trumped up
the morjority of us know that morals values have nothing to do with why Bush is still in office
how do we know..
because we have eyes to see..and the Bush Administration has run a morally bankrupt campaign and him and his admistration are morally bankrupt
there is nothing moral about the bills and laws they have supported. actually it shows just how unmoral and how valueless they are
for all their preaching... they have nothing to show for it
they do a lot of talking but they haven't backed up any of their preaching
and as for the so called morals and values people who voted for him..well..most of them are bigots who use their so called religion and preaching as a sheild..how do we know they are bigots..
once again because we have eyes to see..they support an administratin lacking in values and morals
the real morals and values people are us Dem/Libs/ Progressives
because we are the ones who even though we might disagree..or not like something we understand whats at stake.. we might not like the idea of gay marriage..but we know that they are human beings and we aren't going to try to make them 2nd and 3rd class citizens, we know and understand that Church and State should be seperate...
we understand that everyone deserves the opportunity to succeed..we understand that people need health care ..and clean water and clean air? and we support it, we can see when our constitution is being corrupted and we're angry about it.. we understand that people have the right to make deceisions about their own body..we may not like or agree with abortion.. but we support someone elses right to that choice
you see we not only talk the talk but we walk the walk.
unlike these so called moral values people
so lets get that one striaght ..we aren't that stupid..morals and values haven't got a damn thing to do with why Bush is still in office if it did he wouldn't be there
Although I do agree with this person that Democrates and when I say Democrates I mean the Kerry crew didn't make his positions clear
he made some gross errors ones that I would often shake my head at and ask how can they be that dense..its the same mistake that Gore made back in 2000 even though he did win ( I believe Kerry did to but it can't be proven as of yet)..but I digress
Kerry bought into the Republicans game..
much in the same way that this moral values thing is being hawked!!
everytime the Bush Administration would throw something out there..the Democrates would crew on it..
what they should have done was let the B-A chew on their own garabage and concentrated on the issues instead of taking the bait every freak'n time
and Kerry was too nice..Democates can't be nice when your running against corrupt shady mean spirted administion like the Bush administration
Thats one of the reasons why I love Howard Dean so much, he was a badass.. he knew exactly what he wanted to do and he wore his Liberalism like a badge of honor(he said all the things that needed saying)
while I would never want the Democaratic party to stoop as low as the Republican party where the ends justify the means at any cost..because that would be a party I couldn't support..
I do think we have to be tougher because we are dealing with something very nasty
while this person makes a few points
Kerry who wasn't my 1rst choice by any means, for one I felt that he was to conservative...was a better choice then Bush..at this point just about anything is a better choice then the current administration
and I don't say that with malice..I say it with fear..the Bush administation scares me!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
This person has it wrong
That may be. I saw several good points in the letter. But if you're correct, how do you convince this kind of person, who might have voted Kerry? By insults like this?
Quote:
and as for the so called morals and values people who voted for him..well..most of them are bigots who use their so called religion and preaching as a sheild..how do we know they are bigots..
once again because we have eyes to see..they support an administratin lacking in values and morals
the real morals and values people are us Dem/Libs/ Progressives
Yeah. "I hate your guts, you bigot! Now vote for my candidate, fool!" Works every time.
Quit talking politics and see the message here. If you insult people instead of educating them on your views, you may feel morally superior, but you'll continue to lose at the polls.
I probably agree with the liberal side of most issues, but since posting a while back that I wasn't convinced Bush "Lied" about WMD (not that there are any, just that he might have been fooled like everyone else), I haven't been able to discuss anything without being branded a neo-con, or a paid propagandist for the right. Nobody much cares how I feel about taxes, or same-sex marriage, or anything else. I didn't follow the orthodoxy 100%, and so was branded a heretic. This bothered me so much I went Libertarian, rather than vote for a party that contained such fanatics.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I think Kerry and Bush both gave some clear and some convoluted answers during the debates.
Unfortunately, for Kerry, He gave clear responses when he should have been vague and vice versa. Bush did the exact opposite and so won the vote.
Kerry wasn't concise and clear when it came to religious viewpoints, but he was very clear on other things. Bush was very concise and clear on the religion topic, but not on others.
That played to Bush's advantage because that is the most important thing to voters in the US, as shown by the results of the election polls.
Also, when Kerry had the chance to explain his stance on the abortion issue, he was vague again. He had to explain and explain his point of view because it was more complicated than Bush's. All Bush had to say in response to Kerry on that issue was, "he voted against the anti-abortion bill."
Nevermind the reason.... most people stopped listening to Kerry after his third sentence on that point. I didn't, but I think it's clear most people did.
For those who don't know, Kerry didn't support the anti-abortion bill because it had no provision for the mother of the baby. If the mother was going to die as a result of keeping her baby, she had no other option but to die, under the republican anti-abortion bill. The democrats wanted to vote for it, but they wanted it to say, allow for certain life-threatening situations to the mother to be taken into account.
The republicans said, no. Democrats called the republicans out for making a catch 22 situation... saying that repub's created a faulty bill just so that the dem's couldn't vote for it... thus making it a fabricated political issue that repub's could use against dem's in the upcoming election.... which they did. Very successfully I might add. Very dishonest tactics to fool the american public.
People forgot that the Dem's told them what the repub's were planning to do, election time rolled around, and all anyone heard on the news about abortion was that Kerry supports it. What a load.
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Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
This person has it wrong
That may be. I saw several good points in the letter. But if you're correct, how do you convince this kind of person, who might have voted Kerry? By insults like this?Quote:
and as for the so called morals and values people who voted for him..well..most of them are bigots who use their so called religion and preaching as a sheild..how do we know they are bigots..
once again because we have eyes to see..they support an administratin lacking in values and morals
the real morals and values people are us Dem/Libs/ Progressives
Yeah. "I hate your guts, you bigot! Now vote for my candidate, fool!" Works every time.
Quit talking politics and see the message here. If you insult people instead of educating them on your views, you may feel morally superior, but you'll continue to lose at the polls.
I probably agree with the liberal side of most issues, but since posting a while back that I wasn't convinced Bush "Lied" about WMD (not that there are any, just that he might have been fooled like everyone else), I haven't been able to discuss anything without being branded a neo-con, or a paid propagandist for the right. Nobody much cares how I feel about taxes, or same-sex marriage, or anything else. I didn't follow the orthodoxy 100%, and so was branded a heretic. This bothered me so much I went Libertarian, rather than vote for a party that contained such fanatics.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, as far as I'm concerned its their lost
oh good gawd who said anything about hating..
I don't hate...
I call it like I see it...
This administration has been against
clean water , clean air, the enivoriment as a whole..just look at some of the bills they have supported , they are against gay marriage which equals human rights, they are against abortion, they are against people of color having the right to vote, they haven't supported any bills that would provide hard working people in this country any healthcare..the republican party is the party of hate and disenfranchisement, actually this administration is against the poor and middle classes
the bigots aren't bigots because I say they are.
they are because they are
These people don't practice what they preach!!
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, as far as I'm concerned its their lost
But it's your loss. You lost the election because you couldn't convince enough folks to vote for Kerry. Now you have to deal with Bush for another four years. If you alienate the middle-of-the-roaders by your stridency, instead of calmly trying to sell them on your point of view, you'll lose again in 2008.
There are a lot of folks out there like the letter writer. You (the Democrats/liberals/progressives) need to turn them from the "dark side", not insult them until they won't listen no matter what you say. You can learn from your mistakes or you can repeat them. The choice is up to you.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I didn't even vote for Bush, but I was so turned off by the ceaseless hatred coming from the Democratic side that I couldn't vote Kerry either. It may not have been from his campaign, but the Dems I saw here and on other boards were so hateful and smugly eliteist that I couldn't stand it. You guys gotta learn that calling people stupid isn't the way to get them to support your candidate.
The attitude was borne out of fear; he kept lying and nobody cared. He kept increasing world tension and nobody cared. His actions create new terrorists and nobody cared.
In the end those who paid attention felt they had to scream. What a pity they forgot... nobody cares.
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LexiBlock,
I was feeling a little foolish about my earlier post. But now, not so much. Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
The attitude was borne out of fear; he kept lying and nobody cared. He kept increasing world tension and nobody cared. His actions create new terrorists and nobody cared.
In the end those who paid attention felt they had to scream. What a pity they forgot... nobody cares.
I think that those who felt they had to scream have assumed they were the only ones paying attention.
This was the most considered and thoughtful electorate in years. Ratings and political attendence where through the roof.
Result, the first electorate majority in 16 years.
The Democrats throughout the Red states revolted and black support for the President doubled. Seems to me you can blame the voters or you can blame a failed message and an out of touch party. Just remember, blaming the voters is an easy way to lose the next election.
Its almost like the liberal approach to TV. Liberals support public television despite the fact the ratings do not justify such support. People are just to stupid to watch...
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, as far as I'm concerned its their lost
But it's your loss. You lost the election because you couldn't convince enough folks to vote for Kerry. Now you have to deal with Bush for another four years. If you alienate the middle-of-the-roaders by your stridency, instead of calmly trying to sell them on your point of view, you'll lose again in 2008.
There are a lot of folks out there like the letter writer. You (the Democrats/liberals/progressives) need to turn them from the "dark side", not insult them until they won't listen no matter what you say. You can learn from your mistakes or you can repeat them. The choice is up to you.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
No the days of trying to talk to Rep's / Conservatives and reason with them are over its sink or swim !!
Now you are the one that has it Wrong!!
Its OUR loss
We may have lost the election but you guys loss too so its our loss, maybe you can't see it now at this moment but you will see in time, probably alot sooner then later
Yes just like Mal said it maybe the losing side but I'm not covinced it was the wrong side
We know its your loss just as much as it is ours, Despite the fact that alot of people voted against their own intrest( despite the fact that the election was stolen ( I believe it was and that it will come out eventually)..those same people need all the same things we do
so its our lost and if you ask most Democrates out there most progressive people they'll tell you that we're all loosers in this game!!
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