Ghosts exist, yes or no? On the fence?
POSTED BY: Wishimay
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 5, 2023 06:04
VIEWED: 20305
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Quote:Sorry T, I missed me taking politics out of RWED. I'll snark everyone. I actually thought he was joking, continuing your joke about the pictures of ghosts, which in turn was snarking all of RWED. Now I see he just fell for it.
Originally posted by THGRRI:
He did cross over. Just as you tried to do. In a way that is not easily noticed. You know that right sockpuppet err, dreamtrove?No harm no foul.
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Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material.Little dry.
I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T
Thanks for yer support. However, I already admitted I thought this was REWD (based on topic), while still replying in kind. And I thanked Wishi for pointing this out.Quote:
Seriously?
Yes, they do. Here's my logic. I've had waking hallucinations and dreams. In those, there are dead people. Everyone else has had this experience too. Those people then tell you things that they might have said. So, they are haunting you.
These occurrences happened while a child? Or as adult?
I am not sure which discussions you have missed out on during your respite, so I'll mention you should check out the DVD for Suspect Zero (Ben Kingsley, Aaron Eckart, Carrie-Anne Moss) and, if nothing else, view the special featurette demonstration. But not first if you are going to watch the movie - it would be a definite spoiler.Quote:
If someone says they exist in some energyfield or someone else says it's all in your head, either way, they can talk to you and can't touch anything, so what's the difference?
Science could prove that they don't exist, and then in some other form, prove again that they do. Are they sentient connections of their former selves? That's a much harder one to answer. Do I think they travel through some cosmic plane? No, but what do I know? I assume they impress themselves on your subconscious which re-creates them later, but again, what's the difference, the end effect is the same.
For those who want a more mystical approach, I did have this surreal experience as a kid. we were running a B&B in a haunted mansion, it was empty, except for us, and the whole situation was at least the Others level of creepy. This man came to stay one night, he'd never heard of us or the town, but broke down here, very twilight zone. I'd never had a tv and didn't know that the world wasn't really like this, that people didn't really live in haunted castles with no electricity and walk around with candleholders to see their way, i knew they did it in books, and we did, so it all made perfect sense. So that night he went up, and the next morning he asked about the other gentleman who was staying in the building. We asked, and he described a very good desription of the building's creator, who had unbeknownst to him, been shot in the building over a century earlier. It was clear that when we told him that he was genuinely freaked out, so I don't think it was a prank. What he had scene and why, I don't know. He'd perhaps seen a photo somewhere in the house, and then had a dream? or he'd actually saw him standing at the end of the hall as he told us. I'll never know. But again, does it matter?
okay i missed that detail
second, as an adult. i didn't know a lot of dead people as a child. the story of the B&B i was a kid but i wasn't the one who saw dead people then.
Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.
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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.
I lost the ability in my 30s when I was "cured" by the men in white coats. That made me "sane" which I wish someday to learn to undo, after I learn how to survive.
I spent some time working through the science of it, and what I came to was that, okay, maybe we live in an SE Lain world, and there's something existential going on; or maybe our network is just the collective unconscious.
If you think about it, ants achieve both telepathy and the intelligence of roughly a human, even though we have a million times larger a brain, through their amazing ability to tap into the collective unconscious. Ergo, it's pretty powerful stuff. Certainly it's how dreams work. All those people in your dreams are recorded copies of real people, but they're amazingly accurate in anyway. That girl who turned you down? good luck picking her up in your dream. She's probably stilll miffed at you.
But why not, I mean, we exist in the communication between brain cells within our own body. If we show up in other people's dreams, and we know we do, than that reflection can have a larger dispersion across the larger network.
If someone were to broadcast themselves to me to the point where they appear in my dreams, then i broadcast myself to you, it's possible, and probable, that i'm also rebroadcasting them as well, even though you haven't met them and may not even know they exist.
I did some neurological work in grad school on nano-networking that occurs inside brain cells. Networks get duplicated on a smaller and smaller level, where an entire human consciousness can be replicated inwards, because the limiting factor is really the size of the moleules. So, while the cell is If the brain is e+2 and each cell of is ergo e-10, there is another e-14 within it. Which is plenty of wiggleroom to work form.
Deja vu I picture as working the same way as chess. You've unconsciously calculated the possible events of the next six moves and discarded all of the dead ends, and then went on to the seventh. the brain could do the same thing with time on an epic scale.
With ghosts, the next question would be, if a conscious can exist and transmit itself in this form, how long could it theoretically realistically survive for? I know that viruses that transcribe some or all of their dna can be reconstituted thousands of years later even if the initial dna has decayed, as long as the fragments are brought back into contact.
This leads me to the idea that it's theoretically possible for such a transferred image of a consciousness to reconstitute and possess someone. I think that's not likely as the host would hopefully have a much strong consciousness themselves. But this is a Sci-fi forum, so do i think all of that is possible? Yes, with or without a serial experiment lain universe, which I definitely cannot prove we do not live in.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Yeah, somehow I don't think they stopped to question what it was they were seeing and/or classify it
Lets go with "things out of the ordinary"??
OK, seeing indicates vision, an apparition. I don't think I've seen one, but most kids are more attuned to this, and my childhood talents went away mostly during Boot Camp. I do still believe in the manifestation of a visual presence.
Things out of the ordinary also brings in things which sometimes intersect with spirits, those dead but not yet passed thru, those both dead and already passed thru ("The Light"). Such as remote viewing (used to find bodies as well as other tasks), deja vu, premonition, mediums, others.
If you want to see another demonstration of remote viewing, see the special features on the DVD for Suspect Zero.
That lady from Cleveland (Mary Ann Winkowski) who was the basis and technical expert for The Ghost Whisperer has a pretty good book on her aspect of the subject. But she only does those between death and passing thru, she cannot communicate with those already passed thru.
Just last night Mary Ann Winkowski was the guest for a few hours of interview and taking phone calls on Coast-to-Cast radio show.
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This looks like nothing more than an exercise in denial of the evidence.
Not trying to belittle, it seems an admirable pursuit of explanation. Like explaining why God must exist because there is no scientific evidence.
Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.
I lost the ability in my 30s when I was "cured" by the men in white coats. That made me "sane" which I wish someday to learn to undo, after I learn how to survive.
I spent some time working through the science of it, and what I came to was that, okay, maybe we live in an SE Lain world, and there's something existential going on; or maybe our network is just the collective unconscious.
If you think about it, ants achieve both telepathy and the intelligence of roughly a human, even though we have a million times larger a brain, through their amazing ability to tap into the collective unconscious. Ergo, it's pretty powerful stuff. Certainly it's how dreams work. All those people in your dreams are recorded copies of real people, but they're amazingly accurate in anyway. That girl who turned you down? good luck picking her up in your dream. She's probably stilll miffed at you.
But why not, I mean, we exist in the communication between brain cells within our own body. If we show up in other people's dreams, and we know we do, than that reflection can have a larger dispersion across the larger network.
If someone were to broadcast themselves to me to the point where they appear in my dreams, then i broadcast myself to you, it's possible, and probable, that i'm also rebroadcasting them as well, even though you haven't met them and may not even know they exist.
I did some neurological work in grad school on nano-networking that occurs inside brain cells. Networks get duplicated on a smaller and smaller level, where an entire human consciousness can be replicated inwards, because the limiting factor is really the size of the moleules. So, while the cell is If the brain is e+2 and each cell of is ergo e-10, there is another e-14 within it. Which is plenty of wiggleroom to work form.
Deja vu I picture as working the same way as chess. You've unconsciously calculated the possible events of the next six moves and discarded all of the dead ends, and then went on to the seventh. the brain could do the same thing with time on an epic scale.
I've played Chess, and I've had a lot of Deja Vu - I don't see any correlation which fits your description - it doesn't mesh with reality for me.
Sounds, spoken words, gestures, specific clothes, people, knowing what is about to happen behind you a second before it happens, what somebody is about to say a second before it happens, what will crash or fall a second before it happens, all happening at the one and only time and place in the universal timeline that it could possibly happen. I don't see how that fits your description - so maybe I don't understnad your explanation.
The Deja Vu episode I recall as most repetitive repeated at least 13 times - I didn't count the repetitions prior to those - until the final time was the only place , time, year, date in world history that it could have happened - so it was the real world event, yet it felt exactly as real as all of the prior 13+ sequences.
Quote:
With ghosts, the next question would be, if a conscious can exist and transmit itself in this form, how long could it theoretically realistically survive for? I know that viruses that transcribe some or all of their dna can be reconstituted thousands of years later even if the initial dna has decayed, as long as the fragments are brought back inNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Chess, Nostradomus...
Or of people in your future, who you will meet through others you have also not met yet, from other events which have not transpired yet? It would seem that for events which happen in the future, there are many limitations to your concept of rebroadcasting dreams.
I am not familiar with SE Lain, so maybe that is a major missing portion of the explanation for me.
Okay, see Serial Experiment Lain. Essentially the idea that the universe can be explained in terms of information theory. It's true that you can posit 3 dimensional space and everything in it form the basic relations of information theory as sort of foregone conclusions, which leads one to the possibility that even a matrix like reality would be conceivable. The computational power would be immense and that's not where SE Lain goes. But that the universe itself is capable of hold and transmitting data.
That's one possibility outside of the collective unconscious.
One thing in any science is if you are to accept the possibility of a science, like precognition or life after death, in addition to "accepted science" then, as with all other sciences, there will be crackpots in that field. So, a large number of things you read are going to be bogus, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon doesn't exist.
So, taking my own experiences, and filing them into one of these two categories as the SE Lain possibility, that the fabric of spacetime is an information network, then the solution seems self evident. Alternatively, as collective unconscious, they may in face be echoes, like in the Dr. Who episode with the library, but instead within a computer system, this is within the human mind as an information network, or rather the human race. Since we know ants and bees and termites function in this fashion, it's not inconceivable to think that humans could.
And could would be the second operative word. Not everyone would necessarily leave an imprint on either information system.
As for future people: If the imprint is significant enough, it might create a self-perpetuating influence. Figure even with a human collective unconscious as the information system, a human makes x # of impressions on x # of humans, and then exists in a shadow within those humans, that shadow could then create a secondary reflection, and with enough reinforcement, could ultimately create one stronger than the initial impressions. If so, then I'd probably have to concede to the possbility of the divinity of Christ. I figure that the people who sincerely believe in him may very well have met him.
Have I met ghosts I didn't know? Yes. Can I confirm this? No, i didn't know them, so I can't definitely say that vision was this dead person, it's possible that I was delusional (dubious) or that it was some form of alien life (skeptical but possible) I've gone through a number of other possible explanations in my life, such as that perhaps we have several little currents of neural soul living inside of us, and one takes over control of the brain and becomes "us" and these others are people that didn't.
Now as to the chess question.
If you see the universe as an infinite chess game and the mind as an infinite computer, than there would be a logically determinable number of steps that could be theoretically predicted by the mind. Logically, this could force us out of the narrow time window of unmeasurably small monomer events into a spectrum of temporal range of a moving time window. In fact, it more or less must be so, since the brain cannot process data at the same rate things can happen. If this window is normally .075 seconds, then with the proper amount of subconscious precognition, it could expand to say 7.5 seconds, which would be pretty much in the window of deja vu, without any trouble, and could expand a great deal further if dealing with more vague details of larger situations.
Nost
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I still believe that Ghost does exist. I saw my grandfather who died after a few days when I was younger.
StyleVision
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Quote:
Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Chess, Nostradomus...
Or of people in your future, who you will meet through others you have also not met yet, from other events which have not transpired yet? It would seem that for events which happen in the future, there are many limitations to your concept of rebroadcasting dreams.
I am not familiar with SE Lain, so maybe that is a major missing portion of the explanation for me.
Okay, see Serial Experiment Lain. Essentially the idea that the universe can be explained in terms of information theory. It's true that you can posit 3 dimensional space and everything in it form the basic relations of information theory as sort of foregone conclusions, which leads one to the possibility that even a matrix like reality would be conceivable. The computational power would be immense and that's not where SE Lain goes. But that the universe itself is capable of hold and transmitting data.
That's one possibility outside of the collective unconscious.
One thing in any science is if you are to accept the possibility of a science, like precognition or life after death, in addition to "accepted science" then, as with all other sciences, there will be crackpots in that field. So, a large number of things you read are going to be bogus, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon doesn't exist.
So, taking my own experiences, and filing them into one of these two categories as the SE Lain possibility, that the fabric of spacetime is an information network, then the solution seems self evident. Alternatively, as collective unconscious, they may in face be echoes, like in the Dr. Who episode with the library, but instead within a computer system, this is within the human mind as an information network, or rather the human race. Since we know ants and bees and termites function in this fashion, it's not inconceivable to think that humans could.
And could would be the second operative word. Not everyone would necessarily leave an imprint on either information system.
As for future people: If the imprint is significant enough, it might create a self-perpetuating influence. Figure even with a human collective unconscious as the information system, a human makes x # of impressions on x # of humans, and then exists in a shadow within those humans, that shadow could then create a secondary reflection, and with enough reinforcement, could ultimately create one stronger than the initial impressions. If so, then I'd probably have to concede to the possbility of the divinity of Christ. I figure that the people who sincerely believe in him may very well have met him.
Have I met ghosts I didn't know? Yes. Can I confirm this? No, i didn't know them, so I can't definitely say that vision was this dead person, it's possible that I was delusional (dubious) or that it was some form of alien life (skeptical but possible) I've gone through a number of other possible explanations in my life, such as that perhaps we have several little currents of neural soul living inside of us, and one takes over control of the brain and becomes "us" and these others are people that didn't.
Now as to the chess question.
If you see the universe as an infinite chess game and the mind as an infinite computer, than there would be a logically determinable number of steps that could be theoretically predicted by the mind. Logically, this could force us out of the narrow time window of unmeasurably small monomer events into a spectrum of temporal range of a moving time window. In fact, it more or less must be so, since the brain cannot process data at the same rate things can happen. If this window is normally .075 seconds, then with the proper amount of subconscious precognition, it could expand to say 7.5 seconds, which would be pretty much in the window of deja vu, without any trouble, and could expand a great deal further if dealing with moreNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Nope, do not think they do.
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I would say generally no, but I'm not to fully rule some mystic, dimensional, higher spiritual thing out...who knows, I feel the world around us, almost 100% is largely real and logical....maybe something exists or ghost if you will. Largely in this world all is what you see, touch, feel, a physical scientific rational explanation...but there might be something more, there might also be an element of faith...like wish or a blessing or a hex or curse...if you do not believe it does not influence your life.
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