Sniper kills five cops

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, May 24, 2024 01:42
VIEWED: 5593
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SECOND

Saturday, July 23, 2016 11:02 PM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Oh and a population that seems largely in denial about cause and effect.
In so many ways, and not just about guns. We are a nation of "believers" ... we believe in religion, free enterprise, guns, individualism ... no matter what the effect of our beliefs.

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If you had different guns laws with less access to weapons, you'd still have the social issues, but not the guns deaths. Its incredibly simple.
You're probably right about that. But the fact that we can't seem to get those laws in place speaks to a much larger dysfunction in our society.

That is very magnanimous of you to say "probably". Probably a Republican Congress will vote against gun control. Probably a Democratic Congress will vote in the opposite direction. Probably if you want to change the direction of the USA the majority party in Congress needs to change. Certainly the majority is Republican. Or you could vote for the Green Party and certainly nothing will change because the Green Party has never sent anyone to Congress.

SECOND

Saturday, July 23, 2016 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Oh and a population that seems largely in denial about cause and effect.
In so many ways, and not just about guns. We are a nation of "believers" ... we believe in religion, free enterprise, guns, individualism ... no matter what the effect of our beliefs.

Quote:
If you had different guns laws with less access to weapons, you'd still have the social issues, but not the guns deaths. Its incredibly simple.
You're probably right about that. But the fact that we can't seem to get those laws in place speaks to a much larger dysfunction in our society.

That is very magnanimous of you to say "probably". Probably a Republican Congress will vote against gun control. Probably a Democratic Congress will vote in the opposite direction. Probably if you want to change the direction of the USA the majority party in Congress needs to change. Certainly the majority is Republican. Or you could vote for the Green Party and certainly nothing will change because the Green Party has never sent anyone to Congress.

SIGNYM

Saturday, July 23, 2016 11:17 PM

SO MUCH MORE needs to change than gun control. Neither Dems nor Repubs will take the necessary steps. So I refuse to vote for Dems over relatively small matters... especially when they will stab us in the back over bigger issues, like trade and war.

Feel free to continue to cling to the DNC if you wish.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

THGRRI

Sunday, July 24, 2016 4:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

This is really funny coming from a Putinett and Trump fan. Since you are not bright enough to see the hypocrisy of your statement, let me suggest you reflect on it a bit.

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1KIKI

Sunday, July 24, 2016 2:11 PM

"Sniper kills five cops"

What goes around, comes around.

BTW, that's descriptive, not prescriptive. And now I get to see who doesn't understand what that means.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, July 26, 2016 5:37 AM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
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This is why I rarely come here anymore - the tedium of American Exceptionalism spills over even into explanation of your problems.
You're the only one who has commented on that. I guess because you aren't American, you notice our exceptionalism more.

But, we ARE exceptional.

Then all countries are exceptional in that regard, they all have their own cultures, history, population and wealth statistics.

American has been, in recent history, the wealthiest and most powerful. But even then there is nothing unique about that. That position is occupied by some country/civilisation at any point in history. They have their time in the sun, they wield great power and influence and then they are replaced.

I don't know if you were to look at the stats that people or more violence or dysfunctional than ever before. Complex societies develop sub groups, and if sub groups are poor and disenfranchised then violence erupts. For example, we have huge problems with incredible violence in Aboriginal communities, but you see, we don't have a highly armed population, so the violence, horrific as it is, doesn't translate to gun deaths. I'm pretty sure that if the population was as armed here as in the US, you'd see pretty much the same statistics.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:30 AM

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This is why I rarely come here anymore - the tedium of American Exceptionalism spills over even into explanation of your problems.- MAGONS

You're the only one who has commented on that. I guess because you aren't American, you notice our exceptionalism more. But, we ARE exceptional.- SIGNY

Then all countries are exceptional in that regard, they all have their own cultures, history, population and wealth statistics.

Yes, all countries have their own cultures, etc. But none currently has the statistics that the USA does, particularly the statistics on weapons and military spending, combined with a world-straddling military.

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American has been, in recent history, the wealthiest and most powerful. But even then there is nothing unique about that. That position is occupied by some country/civilisation at any point in history. They have their time in the sun, they wield great power and influence and then they are replaced.

If you mean that position is occupied by every nation at some point in its history, the refutation is that there are many small nations and cultures which never achieve ... if "achieve" is the word I'm looking for ... the status of Empire. But you're right in that America isn't the first and only nation to be an imperial naiton.

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I don't know if you were to look at the stats that people [ARE?] or more violence or dysfunctional than ever before. Complex societies develop sub groups, and if sub groups are poor and disenfranchised then violence erupts. For example, we have huge problems with incredible violence in Aboriginal communities, but you see, we don't have a highly armed population, so the violence, horrific as it is, doesn't translate to gun deaths. I'm pretty sure that if the population was as armed here as in the US, you'd see pretty much the same statistics.

So people die of alcoholism and drugs and poor nutrition and knifings instead?

If I were to try and parse what you're saying, MAGONS, is that exceptional gun violence in the USA is unrelated to empire, wealth gap, religiosity, or anything else that makes the USA exceptional, other than the exceptional access to guns.

The USA has about 90 guns per 100 people. Switzerland has about 46, Finland 45, and Sweden, Iceland, Germany are in the realm of 30-32. Mexico has 15, The UK has 7, Rawanda has 0.6, and just for the sake of completeness, Australia has 22.

This highest guns deaths are in Honduras (67 per 100,000) with a gun ownership of 6 per 100. The next highest is Venezuela (59 per 100,000) with a gun ownership of 11.

In my previous list of gun while the USA has two or three times as many guns per 100 people as the other gun-owning developed nations, the gun deaths respectively are USA 10.5, Switzerland 3, then Finland 3, Sweden 1.5, Iceland 1.2, Germany 1, Mexico 8, UK 0.2, Rwanda unk, and Australia 0.9.

It's not just the presence of guns. In some cases, nations with high gun ownership have effective gun laws. In some cases, nations with low gun ownership have very high gun deaths and apparently high levels of corruption. In fact, possibly the causal link is between gun deaths and corruption.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So people die of alcoholism and drugs and poor nutrition and knifings instead?

Correct. But not gun deaths, and while the other is horrific, it would be more horrific with the presence of guns.

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If I were to try and parse what you're saying, MAGONS, is that exceptional gun violence in the USA is unrelated to empire, wealth gap, religiosity, or anything else that makes the USA exceptional, other than the exceptional access to guns.

Yep, that's pretty much it. Perhaps I'd add access to guns without/with limited laws (coz I know they vary state to state} that regulate ownership/storage and usage.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 26, 2016 6:44 AM

It seems to me that gun death is related, if anything, to social disorganization and endemic corruption. A few guns in a population with no guns do an awful lot of damage.

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I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, July 26, 2016 7:46 AM

I wouldn't have thought that adding more guns to a society where there was social disorganisation and corruption was going to be helpful either.

A bit of a cross post, but they are kind of related, I think the other issue would also appear to be that with a highly armed population, you have a jumpy police force, hence the police shootings I also would assume that cops don't appear to be the most highly intelligent, educated and trained sector of your society either, but maybe they should be.

Also consider the amount of guns that aren't necessarily involved in street crime stats, and I mean the accidental shootings, the suicides, the family violence statistics.

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