COUP...TURKEY

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Friday, March 28, 2025 16:44
VIEWED: 4802
PAGE 3 of 4

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 2:11 AM

Boy has this thread gone to shit, lies and false reporting.

Zero Hedge is a financial blog that aggregates news and presents editorial opinions from original and outside sources. The news portion of the site is written by a group of editors who collectively write under the pseudonym "Tyler Durden" (a character from the novel and film Fight Club).

AND, some of the news you credit to them actually comes from RT. Yano, Russian propaganda.

____________________________________________

1KIKI

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 9:55 AM

What I like about Zero Hedge is that their articles are a Swiss cheese of links. So if you want to go back to the original source, chances are you'll find it. That's commendable. They act like they've got nothing to hide. Unlike a lot of other supposedly 'reputable sources' that bury their news slant behind selective quoting, cherry-picked facts, anonymous sources, official pronouncements, and all the usual propaganda tools.

Yeah, I'm looking at YOU, New York Times.

Let me just point out that the author left out vital relevant facts in the opinion piece. Doing that is known as cherry-picking. And whether you do that in the news, in discussion, in debate or in opinion, when you distort the facts, you've changed the nature of your communication into propaganda. But WE don't have any of THAT in the US, do we?!

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 10:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
What I like about Zero Hedge is that their articles are a Swiss cheese of links. So if you want to go back to the original source, chances are you'll find it. That's commendable. They act like they've got nothing to hide. Unlike a lot of other supposedly 'reputable sources' that bury their news slant behind selective quoting, cherry-picked facts, anonymous sources, official pronouncements, and all the usual propaganda tools.

Yeah, I'm looking at YOU, New York Times.

Nothing to hide, you're stupid beyond belief. How about who are they? How about hiding the fact that they are pulling stories from RT and other propaganda news agencies?

____________________________________________

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Boy has this thread gone to shit, lies and false reporting.

Are there any SPECIFIC items that you take issue with?

Probably not.

Anyway. Been talking about this with hubby and scanning various sources (Saker, Pepe Escobar, others) Judging by the swift action of Erdogan in rounding up suspects, the consensus is that he had pre=prepared lists. The coup, it was generally agreed, was amateurish. I can't remember where I read this, but there was a contention that the coup plotters knew that Erdogan was preparing a list already, and so they started earlier than they were really prepared for.

Also, judging by the tepid support from the western powers for the Erdogan government (western powers waited until the coup was pretty much over before hailing the survival of democracy! in Turkey) and Erdogan's rapid blame-laying of the coup on "anyone who supports Gulen" (i.e the USA) I suspect that this was a result of the USA using the Kamalist faction of the Turkish military. No love lost between Turkey and the EU/USA/NATO.

So now Turkey and the USA/NATO are like a married couple who don't trust each other, even for their lives, but still need each other existentially. Great. Just great.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 4:51 PM

Quote:
Boy has this thread gone to shit, lies and false reporting. -THUGR

Are there any SPECIFIC items that you take issue with? - SIGNY

Well?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 6:41 PM

NOT TRUE!

It's possible to have international relations on a real concurrence of interests. The only reason why the USA "has" to "put up with" Erdogan is because he serves part of a greater plan - that plan which is, as far as I can tell, both evil and ultimately unachievable.

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 8:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's possible to have international relations on a real concurrence of interests.

Exactly! That was this part: "I think you may begin to understand how we can appear to be in bed with some people that we don't really trust or like."

International Relations are always self interest first. What kind of leader would go to his people and say, "This is going to hurt us and we'll never reap any rewards, but I think we should do this thing for another country." There's always a reward in mind, even if it's delayed.

One of our (and I mean USA foreign policy "our") problems with international relations is that we insufficiently define what "our" interests are, fail to respond in a timely way to changes in the interests of partner nations, and fail to project in the medium and long-term the results of our policies.

So what, exactly, does Turkey do for us that makes it worth our while to support a very active supporter of ISIL?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

THGRRI

Tuesday, July 19, 2016 11:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's possible to have international relations on a real concurrence of interests.

Exactly! That was this part: "I think you may begin to understand how we can appear to be in bed with some people that we don't really trust or like."

International Relations are always self interest first. What kind of leader would go to his people and say, "This is going to hurt us and we'll never reap any rewards, but I think we should do this thing for another country." There's always a reward in mind, even if it's delayed.

One of our (and I mean USA foreign policy "our") problems with international relations is that we insufficiently define what "our" interests are, fail to respond in a timely way to changes in the interests of partner nations, and fail to project in the medium and long-term the results of our policies.

So what, exactly, does Turkey do for us that makes it worth our while to support a very active supporter of ISIL?

Since SIG claims to be a chemist, I think I’ll breakdown the process through which one country (in this case America) tries to find common ground with another country. Between which there is a vast chasm of values, so they may come to a concurrence based on mutual interests. Let me explain osmoses to you SIG.

It is the tendency of a fluid to pass through a semipermeable membrane into a solution where the solvent concentration is higher, (in this case the chasm pertaining to values) thus equalizing the concentrations of materials on either side of the membrane. The diffusion of fluids through membranes or porous partitions. ( to create a situation where a concurrence of mutual interests can occur).

Saudi Araba has oil. In order for that oil to pass from the Saudis to America, we need to allow for it to pass through the membrane (which in this case is human rights violations). Same thing with allies like Turkey. They do not support DASH, but because they are Assad’s biggest rivals, weakening DASH to the point of curtailing their assault on Assad did not seem prudent. Their logic was, after DASH did away with Assad, Turkey would then crush DASH. This may not have been the best way forward for Turkey, but it is nonetheless why they have proceeded the way they have.

You know this SIG. If you truly didn’t, then you would be guilty of not understanding how the world works, or at the very least, not doing the proper amount of research to make an intelligent argument concerning the complexities of international relationships. Care to admit to that?

"In support of overall United States Cold War strategy, Turkey contributed personnel to the UN forces in the Korean War (1950-53), joined NATO in 1952, became a founding member of the Central Treaty Organization (CENTO) collective defense pact established in 1955, and endorsed the principles of the 1957 Eisenhower Doctrine. Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, Turkey generally cooperated with other United States allies in the Middle East (Iran, Israel, and Jordan) to contain the influence of those countries (Egypt, Iraq, and Syria) regarded as Soviet clients."

http://countrystudies.us/turkey/90.htm

____________________________________________

THGRRI

Wednesday, July 20, 2016 2:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Cleaning house with a blow torch.

http://wapo.st/29IINc5

Turkey suspends more than 15,000 education workers in widening purge

ANKARA, Turkey — Turkey suspended more than 15,000 Education Ministry workers on Tuesday and demanded resignations from all university deans as authorities widened their far-reaching crackdowns in the wake of a failed coup attempt.

The 15,200 personnel were being investigated for links to the power grab launched last week, the ministry said in a statement. In addition, 1,577 university deans from Turkey's public and private universities were asked to hand in their notice. A further 492 staff were removed from duty at the country's top Islamic authority.

It marked an escalation in a purge of state institutions after a mutinous faction of Turkey’s military staged an attempted overthrow on Friday night, hijacking fighter jets and helicopters to strike key installations and security forces.

Tens of thousands of military officials, police, judges, governors and civil servants have been fired, detained or put under scrutiny — accused of having links to Fethullah Gulen, a cleric living in self-imposed exile in Pennsylvania, who Turkey accuses of being behind the plot.

Gulen — whose backers operate schools in Turkey, the United States and elsewhere — has denied the claims. Critics of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan have warned that he is using it as an opportunity to stamp out any opposition to his government.

Meanwhile, the United States and Europe have urged NATO-ally Turkey to follow the rule of law and maintain democratic principles amid the sweeping fallout from the coup attempt.

But Turkish leaders showed no signs of easing up. Prime Minister Binali Yildirim said Tuesday that Turkey aims to remove Gulen’s movement "by its roots." Gulen was once a close ally of Erdogan, but the men are now rivals.

Yildirim said that Turkey had formally requested Gulen’s extradition, saying his role in the events of last week was “clear.”

“However, we will provide them with a pile of evidence,” he added, according to the state-run Anadolu agency.

Secretary of State John F. Kerry has said previously that the United States would be open to such a request, but that Turkey must provide evidence that meets U.S. legal standards. The State Department had no further comment Tuesday despite repeated requests from journalists.

About 35,000 bureaucrats and others have been fired, detained or suspended. The total includes nearly 9,000 Interior Ministry personnel suspended Monday. Annual leave for more than 3 million civil servants has been canceled.

{ Damn! }

Earlier Tuesday, the Turkish military said it had received intelligence that a rogue element was embarking on a coup hours before hijacked tanks were deployed to the streets and rebel-piloted F-16s bombed key buildings in the capital. The timetable raised questions about why quicker action was not taken to interrupt the plot.

The military said in a statement that it was given information on the coup plot by the National Intelligence Organization at 4 p.m. local time and informed relevant authorities. That was several hours before bridges in Istanbul were cut in one of the first public signs that a power grab was underway.

In an interview with CNN, Erdogan said he was with his family in the coastal resort of Marmaris when the fast-moving events began on Friday. Two of his bodyguards were killed in an operation against him, he said, adding that “if I had stayed 10 or 15 additional minutes there, I would have been killed or I would have been taken.”

It will be interesting to see how the US handles the extradition. They almost have to give him up. With Erdogan in such a paranoid state it would be dangerous for any future relations to seem contrary. And if they do give him up I'm not sure I see him going willingly - shootout at the compound in PA in other words.

So just what are witnessing here. Is it a failed coup of a few, or a leader destroyin

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 20, 2016 3:42 PM

Quote:
Saudi Araba has oil. In order for that oil to pass from the Saudis to America, we need to allow for it to pass through the membrane (which in this case is human rights violations).

Okay ... that is what we get out of the KSA. It's more complicated than that, tho. In addition to oil, we have the "petrodollar" agreement with the KSA. In return, not only do we allow total failure on women's rights within the KSA, we've also allowed them to export Wahhabism - the basis for extremist Muslim terrorism - throughout the Mideast, South Asia, and N Africa.

So, how's that deal working for us now?

Time to revisit, or still more positive than negative?

Quote:
Same thing with allies like Turkey. They do not support DASH

Are you fucking kidding? They have been buying ISIL oil and shipping arms to ISIL, it's been quite a lucrative trade for Bilal Erdogan, and you could see it from space, the convoys were so long.

Quote:
but because they are Assad’s biggest rivals, weakening DASH to the point of curtailing their assault on Assad did not seem prudent. Their logic was, after DASH did away with Assad, Turkey would then crush DASH.

That is YOUR logic. But since there are critical provable, factual errors in your post, I doubt that it represents reality.

Quote:
This may not have been the best way forward for Turkey, but it is nonetheless why they have proceeded the way they have.

Okay, but why does the USA State Dept/ CIA tolerate Turkey's support of ISIL? They are, after all, still part of NATO altho they seem to be working at cross purposes to several of our stated goals for the mideast. So what do WE get out of it? As you said, there is supposed to be a quid pro quo .... what is it?

--------------
I think it's time you disabused yourself of that pleasant little fairy tale about our fearless leaders being some sort of surrogate daddy or mommy, laying awake at night thinking about how to protect the kids. HA! In reality, they're thinking about who to sell them to so that they can get a few more shekels in their pockets.

FIRST PAGE PREV PAGE 1 2 3 4 NEXT PAGE LAST PAGE