Not capable of surviving

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 17:54
VIEWED: 2910
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SIGNYM

Saturday, May 7, 2016 6:55 PM

Our culture, our economy, and our people. Still thinking. More later.

SECOND

Saturday, May 7, 2016 7:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Our culture, our economy, and our people. Still thinking. More later.

Before you answer, read
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-tr
ump.html

Quote:
And it is when a democracy has ripened as fully as this, Plato argues, that a would-be tyrant will often seize his moment.

He is usually of the elite but has a nature in tune with the time — given over to random pleasures and whims, feasting on plenty of food and sex, and reveling in the nonjudgment that is democracy’s civil religion. He makes his move by “taking over a particularly obedient mob” and attacking his wealthy peers as corrupt. If not stopped quickly, his appetite for attacking the rich on behalf of the people swells further. He is a traitor to his class — and soon, his elite enemies, shorn of popular legitimacy, find a way to appease him or are forced to flee. Eventually, he stands alone, promising to cut through the paralysis of democratic incoherence. It’s as if he were offering the addled, distracted, and self-indulgent citizens a kind of relief from democracy’s endless choices and insecurities. He rides a backlash to excess—“too much freedom seems to change into nothing but too much slavery” — and offers himself as the personified answer to the internal conflicts of the democratic mess. He pledges, above all, to take on the increasingly despised elites. And as the people thrill to him as a kind of solution, a democracy willingly, even impetuously, repeals itself.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SECOND

Saturday, May 7, 2016 11:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:

The bloated, wavy haired specter keeping you up at night? I predict many "Trump = End of Times" articles from here to Nov. And they will sell many digital ads.

G, what you wrote elsewhere is not correct. If there is a terrorist attack in the USA, Trump could easily win. He wins if the economy does poorly. He wins if Hillary is indicted for perjury in the investigation of her mail server. Hillary is not home free.

G wrote: “It's fun and exciting to do the "what if Trump wins" thing, but unless Hillary really steps in it, she's home free. Even then, if Trump were to win it would have to be rigged.

Just to repeat: I actually think he could do better with the chauvinistic, old boys' club leaders of the world than Hillary, but he'd be a 'uge disaster at home.” – www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=60523&mid=1010585#
1010585

www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_republican_pre
sidential_nomination-3823.html

For the moment, Hillary is slightly ahead of Trump. But if Trump behaves like a gentleman toward Hillary, his approval ratings will rise up to Hillary's level. Trump doesn't have to act out being a thug any longer because he has the nomination. All the Republicans will vote for him in the general election even if he does behave politely because they know he is still a thug at heart.
www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_tr
ump_vs_clinton-5491.html

Unlike Hillary, the only uncontrollable event for Trump is being indicted for tax fraud. Nixon's V.P. Spiro Agnew was indicted for tax fraud. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiro_Agnew#Resignation

SECOND

Sunday, May 8, 2016 12:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
Quote:
Originally posted by second:
G, what you wrote elsewhere is not correct. If there is a terrorist attack in the USA, Trump could easily win.

Disagree. Hillary is being widely reported as a Hawk, so that event could favor her.

There is no way Hillary can be more hawkish than Trump. If Hillary felt the need for only 100,000 troops because she is reasonable, Trump would simply pledge to drop 1000 H-bombs. Whatever she bids, he will raise it because she is thinking about what really needs to be done and he is just spewing words without thinking. The biggest liar and nincompoop always wins in a contest to be the most hawkish.

That is why that belligerent clown Bush had super-high approval ratings after 9-11. Bush's approval ratings dropped only when it became clear that the Pentagon couldn't cash the checks that Bush's big mouth was writing.

1KIKI

Sunday, May 8, 2016 3:46 AM

"There is no way Hillary can be more hawkish than Trump. If Hillary felt the need for only 100,000 troops because she is reasonable, Trump would simply pledge to drop 1000 H-bombs. Whatever she bids, he will raise it because she is thinking about what really needs to be done and he is just spewing words without thinking. The biggest liar and nincompoop always wins in a contest to be the most hawkish."

Then you haven't been listening to Trump. Not only has he not been talking war, he's been talking détente and negotiation and trade.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SECOND

Sunday, May 8, 2016 6:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

Then you haven't been listening to Trump. Not only has he not been talking war, he's been talking détente and negotiation and trade.

Are you still selling Bernie for President and Hillary for worse than Hitler?

Another 9-11 between now and November 2016 will bring out Trump's usual crazy talk. Trump's campaign could pledge to bring back good old Donald Rumsfeld for Secretary of Defense, since that Donald kept this Donald safe way back in 2001. Yes, I can see the two Donalds on the stage telling America that they can keep it safe, but only if Hillary-worse-than-Hitler is defeated in November.

1KIKI

Sunday, May 8, 2016 9:16 AM

Where is Donald talking war, especially with Russia?

Bomb oilfields to starve ISIS? Not a bad idea. A BETTER idea might be to destroy the oil transport routes through Syria and into Turkey (which Russia substantially did), an even better idea than that would be to remove military and political support from Erdogan (which the neo-cons will NEVER do). But Donald's idea of depriving ISIS of revenue by cutting off the oil is better than Hillary's notions of supporting ISIS, and Turkey, and Israel, and Saudi Arabia, and picking a fight with Russia.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 8, 2016 10:15 PM

Quote:
Our culture, our economy, and our people. Still thinking. More later.- SIGNY

Before you answer, read
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/04/america-tyranny-donald-tr
ump.html And it is when a democracy has ripened as fully as this, Plato argues, that a would-be tyrant will often seize his moment.

He is usually of the elite but has a nature in tune with the time — given over to random pleasures and whims, feasting on plenty of food and sex, and reveling in the nonjudgment that is democracy’s civil religion. He makes his move by “taking over a particularly obedient mob” and attacking his wealthy peers as corrupt. If not stopped quickly, his appetite for attacking the rich on behalf of the people swells further. He is a traitor to his class — and soon, his elite enemies, shorn of popular legitimacy, find a way to appease him or are forced to flee. Eventually, he stands alone, promising to cut through the paralysis of democratic incoherence. It’s as if he were offering the addled, distracted, and self-indulgent citizens a kind of relief from democracy’s endless choices and insecurities. He rides a backlash to excess—“too much freedom seems to change into nothing but too much slavery” — and offers himself as the personified answer to the internal conflicts of the democratic mess. He pledges, above all, to take on the increasingly despised elites. And as the people thrill to him as a kind of solution, a democracy willingly, even impetuously, repeals itself. - SECOND

There's a "but" to that comparison. In Plato's day, Athens had plenty of slaves. In fact most men, and all women, couldn't vote. The "addled, distracted, and self-indulgent CITIZENS" were already of the upper class, so it's not a one-to-one comparison.

That description could have equally described Hitler's rise to power, which was precipitated by the terrible economic conditions of the Weimar Republic, which itself was fueled by the reparations that Germany was forced to pay after WWI.

Another rise to power (although not framed as a democracy) was the French Revolution. There too, conditions were terrible: taxes were unpayable, small businesses were suffering, and peasants were starving. However, the French nobility were indeed pleasure-seeking and corrupt.

There was a partial turnover of power during FDR's terms of office, precipitated by the Great Depression.

The cause of most turnovers of power seems to be related to economics, not an excess of freedom. And since economies seem to implode whenever there is a huge imbalance of wealth, it's not due to "too much freedom" or even "unwise populism", although it's understandable that a huge imbalance of wealth would cause both corruption (at the top) and populism (at the bottom).

However, that does bring me back to my original point.

The 2008 financial collapse rang the world economies like a bell, and it's STILL ringing. China suddenly realized that their whole economic plan depended utterly on western- specifically American- markets. Xi Jingping came to power then, and that whole "it is glorious to be wealthy" crowd - exemplified by Den Xiaoping and his appointees and successors - that had dominated Chinese politics for 30 years started to be squeezed out. China is seeking to wean itself from the dollar, and (in concert with Russia) is working to "de-dollarize" Asia.

Western banksters were suddenly staring down into a yawning chasm that had opened up under their feet. They had made money plundering the entire world with unpayable loans. The ECB decided it needed to plunder its own population instead, hence the squeeze by German, Dutch and Finnish banks on southern Europe. It also explains Britain's plunge into depression for the people, while HSBC hoovers up billions out of the British budget and peddles properties to wealthy elites seeking to stash their ill-gotten gains.

The USA, it seems, has gone on raiding parties across the globe - a tac

SIGNYM

Monday, May 9, 2016 10:47 PM

As an aside, if you want to see the results of this global economic bell-ringing, look at the rise of "right wing" (i.e. nationalist/ populist) movements in Scotland, England (Brexit), Europe AND THE USA, the teetering governments of Venezuela and Brazil (being destabilized from the inside as well as by commodity implosion), the roiling of the Saudi Royal family, and -as previously mentioned- the hardening of Russia and China against the west. The international banks are behind much of the economic mayhem, and consciously or unconsciously nations are turning away from international bonds and becoming isolationist.

THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. Groups under stress- Inuit during winter, birds during reproductive season - will break apart and isolate themselves. It's a survival instinct.

This is not yesterday's world, and "business as usual" isn't going to cut it.

TPTB want people and politicians fat, lazy, and stupid, and the people and their politicians have obliged them.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

JAYNEZTOWN

Saturday, October 11, 2025 3:24 PM

millions killed during the ColdWar...so the proxy wars start once again?

Russia's Putin wants some of that Virgin Galactic Branson, Musk and Bezos money

...didnt they already do this with 'Pepsi'

Putin OKs plan to turn Russian spacecraft into flying billboards | Putin approved changes to federal laws governing advertising and space activities to "allow for the placement of advertising on spacecraft"
https://arstechnica.com/space/2025/10/putin-oks-plan-to-turn-russian-s
pacecraft-into-flying-billboards/

'They've destroyed everything': Palestinians return to devastation in Gaza City
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czew72350ngo

Venezuela asks U.N. for emergency meeting over U.S. military actions, saying it expects "armed attack" soon
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/venezuela-un-emergency-session-us-militar
y-actions-armed-attack/

When Backing War Is the Only Sane Position, Leave the Asylum
https://davidswanson.org/when-backing-war-is-the-only-sane-position-le
ave-the-asylum/

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