Are we living in a modern day facist Nazi Germany
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Friday, March 11, 2005 19:39
VIEWED: 21383
PAGE 6 of 10
Quote:
Originally posted by WaddleDoodle:
No.
Have you ever been to Germany? Spoken with Germans? Cracked a history book?
You're obviously hysterical.
My goodness...
You ask a question like that but offer no points of fact. I'm sorry to have to explain to you that the United States government has a responsibilty to it's citizens. Period. I don't pay taxes to fund public works in Finland. The American government has a responsibilty to protect it's citizens. Period. Since liberty has given us the the greatest nation on earth, we're exporting liberty abroad. You might think that's true, but I'm guessing there's not much that will change your mind. By out actions in World War two, when we declared war on Germany, despite NOT having been attacked by German. Why didn't we just focus on the Japanese?
You approach the subject with pure emotion rather than reason. Is the government watching YOU? Have you been taken out of your bed at night and thrown into a gulag? Are you forced to join any organizations or face peril? Are you able to dissent without threat of reprisal? Any Kerry supporters attacked in the news lately? If anything, I've read/heard/seen LOTS of Bush/Cheney signs getting ripped down. Lots of Bush/Cheney Campaign HQs broken into.
Please, for the love of god, read something other than NAOM CHOMSKY. Try Thomas Jefferson.
Watch something other than Fahreneit 9/11, try FahrenHYPE 9/11
Try to be a little more open and understanding.
This is so sad, you missed the whole point of this thread and my orginal post!!
LOL!! hysterical your cracking me up!!
just read through this thread, there are plenty of facts ... and besides, I didn't necessarily want people to do a cut an paste of facts they found off the internet , I want to have a dicussion, viscral emotion serves well I wanted to know what people are thinking and feeling in their guts and in there hearts..not what they heard a talking head say..on t.v..or what they read in some book..No this might be a foreign concept to You personally, and to the cut and pasters out there
but I'm interested in whats coming from people their own opinions feelings and thoughts
I find it even more funny because I hadn't read all of your post when I started to respond, and I see towards the end you say I approach this thread with Emotion( which is what I was aiming for)..as for reason well I'm very reasonable..its great to ask questions, questions need and should be asked
As for your post you didn't answer the question, actually besides accusing me of not reading certain books and watching Farenheight 911 you went off on a tangent about Finland , taxes, and spreading Liberty in the world, ummmm
my advice to you, calm down read the thread , look inside your own head and try to come up with a coherant response.
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Quote:
Hard labor? LOL.
What slave labor? The majority of criminals SIT in jail. Maybe they SHOULD be building our roads...then they might think twice about "stealing aspirin". About your stealing bread and aspirin; I'll bet you I can find, oh...I don't know....100,000 other cases involving rape, murder, theft etc. So don't pretend that evey criminal was just hungry and had a headache. No one said the criminal justice system was perfect, but it's not nazi germany.
Our prisions are concentration camps?????
Again read the post, read it very very slowly if you have to..because obviously your clueless about what we are talking about..Once again you failed to see the point
the post wasn't about crimnals, I'm sure most people don't have a problem with harden violent crimnals doing hard labor.
No the point of the thread was a discussion on how are prison system is being used as a source of slave labor and how through privatisation how this could be used against citazens in the future, how laws can be manipulated and changed to feed a steady source of slave labor..hence the punishment not fitting the crime..in some instances this is already true which is why you have a disportiontate of African Americans and Latinos in the prison system( the majority of which are in for non violent crimes)
the whole point was should someone who steals a bottle of asprin get the same amount of time as someone who rapes or murders
its really kind of sad that I had to point all of this out to you( by choice of course)...I don't even care at this point if I come off as condesending you deserve it.
I don't have all the answers and I'm no genius, but I know how to have a discussion... and I think its time that we as a country demanded more from people..have your own opinions have your own thoughts (please..by all means) but at least know the context in which something is put out and respond accordingly and if you don't know ask..
If your interested...and (I don't really think you are) but why don't you find out about the Prison system and Corportions, because thats what we're bascially talking about
but maybe I can help you a little bit..just a little bit
its not hard at all ...its just a way of thinking, some people can predict things..and not because they are physic, but because they can see whats happening today and apply it to tommrow
if you see something not right or bad happening and nothing is being done to stop it..its not that hard to figure out the most likely outcome..really its just common sense.
histroy itself is also an indictor, those who don't pay attention or learn from histroy is doomed to repeat it in some form.
Knowlege is power, their are alot of things going on in this country right now, that are an indicator of where our country is most likely headed if nothing is done, the good thing is , those of us who can see it or sense it can change it hopefully can use that knowlege to make some changes.
The only thing that really only makes America a great country is that we the people have the power to make changes with our vote..( hopefully thats still true )
knowlege is power /Ignorance is a slave
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Quote:
You are living in a country very similar to Germany in the 30's. The rest of the world sees it, and we have no idea why the bulk of you guys don't.
Believe it or not most Americans are kept woefully ignorant, news in this country is very localized..at least its become that way..something big could be happening in one state, the other stated won't know about it, and our media outlets have become so conglomorate that it really can no longer be said that we have a free press.
You can find out more about whats going on in the country if you listen to the radio,..or go on the internet..but most people in this country don't do that they watch t.v
also if you take into consideration our failing public education system which isn't really set up to teach or learn anything but mostly memorization, also in the public school system thinking is highly discouraged..its all about conformity and memorization..which is one of the reasons why ignorance is so prevalant in this country now
also the fact that most family's in this country are either both working or the single parent is working a full time job or two jobs to support their family they don't have alot of time to spend finding out the facts if it means searching them out( America is the instant gratifcation country) the majority of Americans are tired.
Also too, compared to alot of other countries who have a long rich histroy of politcal upheals etc..to look back on for indicators and guidence, America is a relatively young country ..and don't have the histroy to rely on
and too if you take the fact that just about every American from the time of their birth is told that America is a great country, A rightious country, the Leader of the free World and that we have the best government system in the world, its hard for most to believe that their government would truly harm them or intentionally harm them, for the most part most Americans are pretty naive
Thats just some of the main reason why american's can't see!!
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I'm sorry, but I really didn't read your response. As much as I'd like to debate whatever points your making, I've decided to remove politics from Firefly. I'll go to the political boards and express myself.
Why am I being "so ignorant" do you wonder?
I had a member of this board say that the 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11 were statistically less important than people dying of AIDs daily. We all can agree that AIDs is a horrible disease that strikes like any virus, it kills indiscriminately. The terrorism that killed our friends and family on 9/11 was intentional premeditated murder. It wasn't a virus...it was willful murder based on a hatred of our religion. To be clear, when I say "our religion" I mean all flavors of Christians, Jews, (genuine non-wahabist) Muslims, Hindus, Atheists as well, since the belief in no god is a death sentence to Muslim extremists.
America is the greatest country on Earth. Simply because we are a refuge for the world. Here, we are all free. Here, we all matter, regardless of color or creed. You may believe in some popular stereotype that people like me are racist, but it's false. Ever American is my brother or sister, no matter who they are.
I'm a conservative. I believe in America. I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I'm pro-responsibility regarding abortion. I believe in lower taxes, I think the Government should do more with less money than the citizenry. I believe the Governments only obligation is to defend the Constitution and our Liberty, and shouldn't meddle in our daily lives. I believe in Americans of all colors and creeds. I have resonable debates with liberal friends who are patriots in my book. They, unlike some of the craven filth I've read out here are reasonable and responsible people who still love this country for all of it's strengths. They don't hate nor think we conservatives are any less important nor patriotic then they are.
You may hate America...the Constitution grants you that right. However, with these rights granted to you comes responsibility. You are obligated to make this a better country by working with your neighbors, by working for the common good. You may hate America but it welcomed your ancestors with open arms when they fled religious persecution and petty dictators. Find the good in our country and embrace it. Cherish it. Make it grow. But comparing the United States to Nazi Germany is an irresponsible action and the product of a small pseudo-intellectual mind that hasn't wondered far from campus. Rather than toss about such charges go out and start a business, grow a family, work for a charity, help a veteran, find some good in this country that has given so much through it's 228 years, freeing HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS from real fascism and totalitarianism.
So...here endth my sermon. Take from it what you will. Don't bother ripping it apart and dissecting it in some attempt to change me. It won't happen.
God bless you and yours, the troops defending our liberty and the United States of America. 
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@Piratejenny:
I believe that WaddleDoodle is one of those that people that you're talking about.
I am that person that (s)he is talking about and that is exactly what i did *not* do/say. I believe that this person must be functionally illiterate as what I was getting at was clear and reiterated and clarified (more so) in another post. Or at least (s)he is letting emotion get in the way and reading what (s)he wants to read instead of reading what I typed.
While in San Francisco I visited a Discovery Channel Store. In it they had a book, I can't remember the exact title, that was titled something like "The lies that they told you in highschool and the truth about them."
I really believe that WaddleDoodle should buy and read this, or a like book, as (s)he seems to be pretty deluded about the history of her/his own country. Just another product of that education system, eh 
But on another point, Canada is a quite young country as well and has *far* less problems than the states.
I would conjecture that it has a lot to do with the isolationist ways of the US. Canada has continued its relations with the rest of the world and has participated in the intellectual developments therein. Whereas the US seems to think itself too great to have to "lower" itself to such matters.
Why can't people see that the middle ground is where things should be? That this is the most stable place to be? I guess everyone must have there way. And with the US general attitude of, it's my way or the highway... Well, look where its lead.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by WaddleDoodle:
I'm sorry, but I really didn't read your response. As much as I'd like to debate whatever points your making, I've decided to remove politics from Firefly. I'll go to the political boards and express myself.
Why am I being "so ignorant" do you wonder?
I had a member of this board say that the 3,000 Americans who died on 9/11 were statistically less important than people dying of AIDs daily. We all can agree that AIDs is a horrible disease that strikes like any virus, it kills indiscriminately. The terrorism that killed our friends and family on 9/11 was intentional premeditated murder. It wasn't a virus...it was willful murder based on a hatred of our religion. To be clear, when I say "our religion" I mean all flavors of Christians, Jews, (genuine non-wahabist) Muslims, Hindus, Atheists as well, since the belief in no god is a death sentence to Muslim extremists.
America is the greatest country on Earth. Simply because we are a refuge for the world. Here, we are all free. Here, we all matter, regardless of color or creed. You may believe in some popular stereotype that people like me are racist, but it's false. Ever American is my brother or sister, no matter who they are.
I'm a conservative. I believe in America. I believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I'm pro-responsibility regarding abortion. I believe in lower taxes, I think the Government should do more with less money than the citizenry. I believe the Governments only obligation is to defend the Constitution and our Liberty, and shouldn't meddle in our daily lives. I believe in Americans of all colors and creeds. I have resonable debates with liberal friends who are patriots in my book. They, unlike some of the craven filth I've read out here are reasonable and responsible people who still love this country for all of it's strengths. They don't hate nor think we conservatives are any less important nor patriotic then they are.
You may hate America...the Constitution grants you that right. However, with these rights granted to you comes responsibility. You are obligated to make this a better country by working with your neighbors, by working for the common good. You may hate America but it welcomed your ancestors with open arms when they fled religious persecution and petty dictators. Find the good in our country and embrace it. Cherish it. Make it grow. But comparing the United States to Nazi Germany is an irresponsible action and the product of a small pseudo-intellectual mind that hasn't wondered far from campus. Rather than toss about such charges go out and start a business, grow a family, work for a charity, help a veteran, find some good in this country that has given so much through it's 228 years, freeing HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS from real fascism and totalitarianism.
So...here endth my sermon. Take from it what you will. Don't bother ripping it apart and dissecting it in some attempt to change me. It won't happen.
God bless you and yours, the troops defending our liberty and the United States of America.
all I can say to you, is I think its a good idea if you refrain from these topics if you can't, distinguish whats being said..I don't mean that flippantly..but for your own sake,
this thread and my post in particular had nothing to due with 911 or people dying of Aids, it wasn't even about terrorist, there is nothing stopping you from starting a thread on these topics if you feel so strongly about it and you should do that..instead of coming into another thread in a very arrogant way( it only makes you seem bad)
at least we can agree that we love this country, thats why I started this thread, because I want whats best for myself and my country men...
I don't really know if America is a great Country, I think it is a country with the potential to be great..and I think there are some great things about it..but I also think we have alot of work to do and we can always strive for better we should strive for greatness
unfortuantly the grea
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B]@Piratejenny:
I believe that WaddleDoodle is one of those that people that you're talking about.
I am that person that (s)he is talking about and that is exactly what i did *not* do/say. I believe that this person must be functionally illiterate as what I was getting at was clear and reiterated and clarified (more so) in another post. Or at least (s)he is letting emotion get in the way and reading what (s)he wants to read instead of reading what I typed.
While in San Francisco I visited a Discovery Channel Store. In it they had a book, I can't remember the exact title, that was titled something like "The lies that they told you in highschool and the truth about them."
I really believe that WaddleDoodle should buy and read this, or a like book, as (s)he seems to be pretty deluded about the history of her/his own country. Just another product of that education system, eh
But on another point, Canada is a quite young country as well and has *far* less problems than the states.
I would conjecture that it has a lot to do with the isolationist ways of the US. Canada has continued its relations with the rest of the world and has participated in the intellectual developments therein. Whereas the US seems to think itself too great to have to "lower" itself to such matters.
Why can't people see that the middle ground is where things should be? That this is the most stable place to be? I guess everyone must have there way. And with the US general attitude of, it's my way or the highway... Well, look where its lead.
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
being a product of the public education system, I think I can speak with authority on how bad it is, even at the time, I knew I was being brainwashed, I actually use to skip class and go to the Library..
If you asked a question, especially on the accuracy of something , you either got no answer, or something vague, or that you couldn't discuss it because it wasn't part of the curriculum..your not taught or encourage to think in the public school system..your taught to memorize and unfortuantely alot of the things that you memorize aren't true or is a half true, Its just really sad that people aren't encouraged to think, or ask questions, government is not even taught until the 12th grade and now its considered an elective..so is it any wonder that most people are clueless
America is isolated, from most of the world, , we've become not curious about the rest of the world..Its all about us..and everyone else is an after thought if they are given any consideration at all..so is it any wonder that most Americans don't know whats going on in their own country let alone the rest of the world..we're just not intellectually curious alot of us just don't care!! did you know that a study was done, and alot of American's couldn't even find Canada on the map..didn't know that it was the country above us!!lol sad but true..most Americans don't even know all the names of the states.
ask some Americans about Canada and they think your talking about ginerale soda.!!
Its true about our attitude, we are the greatest Country in the World you eat our dust attitude is going to be the end of us. and its just not true..sure we are one of the stongest miltary powers in the world....but how long is that going to last...its only a matter of time..
I know Canada isn't perfect..but you guys have at least tried to provide your countrymen with medical.(.and I can tell you) haveing some medical care is better then not having none at all no matter how flawed
and its going to be a hard blow to American egos when we can't huff and puff ourselves up...so many Americans wrap themselves up in the flag because yes to some degree they are deluded America isn't as great as we would all love to think or see ourselves unfortuantly its just not true.. I wish it was, but its not!!and when the time comes when the rose
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Quote:
Originally posted by LexiBlock:
That's because you are living with your head up your ass, or only watching reality shows all day while stuffing your face.
If you read something else than the funny pages, you'd have read about case after case where people have been abused and violated. Do some googleing if you really want to be enlighented (which of course you wont, better to put your fingers in your ears and hum really loud)
Whoa there fella'. I don't recall insulting you, but it seems that you feel the need to insult my intelligence. To be honest, I spend too much goddamn time working, so I can't go "googling" for news. I read the newspaper, and thats the news that works for me.
And grow up. Next time someone disagrees with you, try not to insult them. ;)
"They tell ya to never hit a man with a closed fist, but it is on occassion hilarious"
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This is my first post, so be gentle!
We are closer than we may think. Germany's huge war reparations debt tore them apart, resulting in depression, inflation, and general poverty. We are spending literally hundreds of billions of dollars on this war. That is hard to wrap my head around. It bring to mind the amount of surplus we had amassed during Clinton's years. Now we are in debt up to our eyeballs. How are we going to pay for it? The next few years are gonna be tough. I have already felt the crush of the economy. My husband was recently laid off from a crappy factory job he had to take because what are ya gonna do with a Bachelor's in History? Hang it on the wall, next to my Sociology degree. Dust it, perhaps. Le sigh. Well anyway, he lost his crap job THE VERY DAY he was to get benefits and a raise. He now has a crap job at another factory, still no benefits, but at least it's a check. Unemployment is so high here, there is no limit to the number of people lined up to take your job should you be so audacious as to ask for health benefits. My state has also dismantled the state healthcare, which means that my husband, 4 year-old, and I have no chance of getting health care. I sit here and type with blinding pain in my ears because of a ruptured eardrum. My health department can't see me for another week. This is reality. This is what the current administration has done. Public schools are laughable. But add the cost of private school, healthcare, saving for retirement (ha!), etc. There is nothing, less than nothing, left.
That's the economic side. Regarding prisoners just sitting in a jail cell, have you ever heard of Parchman? It's the state penitentiary in Mississippi, where I'm from. It is hellish. It has no walls, where are ya gonna go? It is a labor camp. The prisoners work every day, all day, on farms owned by the government and by private companies. Parchman is the prison that the movie Life is based on. Pretty scary stuff. It's still there, and it still looks the same.
Regarding intellectuals, you DO realize our dear pres was only a C student. And proud of it.
Btw, he didn't win this election. Stolen again. The fact that the absentee military votes were in debate is horrendous. I have friends over there, fighting and dying for a country where their votes aren't even counted. Sickens me. Also, a large portion of the voters HERE were forced to stand in line for ridiculous lengths of time. Making someone stand in line for 8 hours to vote is disenfranchisement. Period.
Canada. Lookin' better and better!
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Quote:Excellent question, PirateJenny.
I sometimes wonder if we as Americans are living in the beginning stages of Nazi Germany, I wonder how the Germans in Germany felt during those horendous times.. did they realize what was happening to their country???
Whatreallyhappened.com made a similar comparison here: The Rise of the Fourth Reich
http://whatreallyhappened.com/reich
I love America too. It is because I love America that I do not want to follow unquestioningly under the thrall of patriotism. We Americans are not above the sort of blind obedience the Germans engaged in during the Third Reich. A Yale psychologist (Stanley Milgram) conducted a series of experiments in the 60's/70's called "Obedience," which demonstrated Americans, like Germans (and as it turns out, like people all over the world), tend to do as they are told, even when they are instructed to kill another person. Here is an account of the experiment.
http://www.age-of-the-sage.org/psychology/milgram_perils_authority_197
4.html
My feeling is, yes it can happen here. We need to be ever vigilant of our leaders and of ourselves that it does not.
Can't Take My Gorram Sky
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