Are we living in a modern day facist Nazi Germany
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Friday, March 11, 2005 19:39
VIEWED: 21383
PAGE 5 of 10
Hehe..Hardan, your grasp of english is better then most who use it as their primary language.
Fortunately in the US..the majority of folks don't follow a leader blindly. Though there have been some instances of late where it would seem like it. Also, here in the US there is a daily barage of criticism for Bush (much of it deserved), in general there is a lot of criticism for all our politicians (the slimey bastiches that they are) and that ultimately is not viewed as unpatriotic.
There is a fine line that is crossed on occasion when it comes to Patriotism in the US. Basically, in my view it's similar to family problems. Every country to a degree can be looked upon as a large family. Even if we are doing something wrong, if someone says or does something against us, many times we all (in some fashion or another..right or wrong) bristle in defense. Especially when an outsider speaks against us. The same can be said for those who are citizens of our country who go abroad and speak badly about our country. Call it the "dirty laundry syndrome" hehe. A good example would be the Dixie Chicks..many took offense to Natalie bad-mouthing our president in another country during war-time, because many feel our problems are our problems and not something to be aired publicly in another country (especially when it comes to financial gain LOL).
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hardan:
But as we compared the present US with Germany in the 30's we agreed that one thing is common. The Patriotism. When I see around europe i don't find a country were patriotism is as strong as in America. Not even the UK
I don't think that you mean patriotism. I'm a patriotic Canadian, but wouldn't even think to do most of the things that the americans consider "patriotic." I really think that you meant nationalistic, which would be the proper term to describe what goes on down there *shutter*
----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
we're clearly such bullies for shutting down the torture rooms in Iraq
Not to fan the flames of this argument too much, but I just wanted to point out that the torture rooms weren't actually shut down - they were just re-opened under new management.
"I like smackin' 'em!" - Jayne Cobb
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Tsk...You really think so little of your fellow Americans?
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Quote:
Originally posted by dietcoke:
Tsk...You really think so little of your fellow Americans?
....hmmm well, besides the fact thay keep electing idiots for leaders, they allowed Firefly to fall by the way side! I might forgive my fellow citizens for the leader thing, but dammit, cancelling Firefly was injustice plain and simple. Guess I'm a little biased.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by LostInTheVerse:
Piratejenny:
I personally prefer to have government play as little of a role as possible in my personal affairs. I believe in a hands off government, and I believe in people taking care of their own. Some people disagree and also live very well because of it, more power to them. If I didn't feel my life was of a suitable quality, I'd probably move to Sweden.
But the essence, in my mind anyway, of keeping more of my money is to save some aside for healthcare and education for my family.
As always, this is just one man's uninformed opinion.
~ Lost In The 'Verse
"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"
I believe that their needs to be a balance between government and freedom, I don't want the government dictating to me my every move, thats one of the reasons why I don't want Bush and his gang back in office
But we pay taxes, I feel that there are some things that the government can do more effciently and cheaper, I also feel that a government because its our money has a responssibilty to see that the people in the country are well cared for this is why I admire country's like Sweeden and the Netherlands..for a country to do well it has to have a balance of both socialism and capitalism, I think those countries I speak of are good examples
In a country as rich in natural resources and as self sustaining as ours, its a shame that we have people that are homeless and hungry.. without healthcare, its a shame that ederly people have to choose between eating and paying for medication, or loosing their homes if they are fortuante enough to have one because they can't pay the property taxes..etc..etc.. the list just goes on an on, its a shame that in certain parts of this country in every city that people live in conditions that are close to third world..it doesn't have to be that way nor should it.. a country is measured by its people..what does it say about us that people in a rich country such as ours live like that...
Our education in this system is out dated and need to be resturctured, its a joke, is it any wonder people are so ignorant in this country..we can do better we have the resources to do so much better and yet we don't
its amazing to me how this country has shelled out billions to go war on people, but they won't do it for education.
I'm happy and glad for you that you have healthcare and have money to put aside for your children's education..
but alot of people in this country aren't so fortunate..as has been stated many times most people even people living in nice nighorhoods and who drive nice cars, are only one or two paychecks away from being homeless.
Because we pay taxes we should all have something to show for it, we should all benifit from the money that we give to our Public servants,
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
There is at least ONE major parallel between the modern U.S. and Nazi Germany and that is in our prison populations.
Germany had a prison population similar to the U.S.'s in which a large percentage was made up of people arrested for non-violent (victimless) crimes. In their case: being the wrong religion, ethnicity or having the wrong sexual preference along with modern staples such as using drugs, being a prostitute, etc.
History informs us that the German prison system morphed into labor camps (benefiting corporations) and then, when the camps became too full, morphed again into concentration camps which disposed of the "unwanted" people.
Of all the modern industrialized nations, the U.S. has the largest percentage of its own people behind bars. Many corporate industries now benefit from this captive work force. Hell, even Microsoft uses prison labor to package it's products. At the rate America is arresting people while simultaneously running out of money for new prisons... what will the U.S. "labor camp" prisons morph into, I wonder?
So....
We know that people alleged to be terrorists can be held indefinitely without access to lawyers or a fair trial (see: Guantanamo Bay).
We've also seen marijuana smugglers treated as terrorists (WA State pot bust utilizing Patriot Act provisions).
It may not be the EXACT flavor of Germany's police state 60-70 years ago... but it's close enough for the same after taste: erosion of liberty.
How much scarier do things need to get?
mattro
I had been wanting to respond to this post but due to my busy life I haven't been able until now
I think this is a very real concern, people need to take a close look at whats been happening to our prison system, as you've stated the reason why prisons are so full is because most of the people in them are in for non violent crimes such as drugs etc, (selling using), and they are also being given longer sentences for these offences
Corporations are buying up prisons ( surprise surprise) , because its cheap labor, I don't have all the details but a friend of mine was telling me something recently about how Laura Bush is heading up something that has to due with prison labor,
I think this is grave indication of what direction this country is heading in...
you don't have to be sitting in a think tank to know when the ecomny gets bad, choices are limtited... most poor people either join the miltary, or steal
so its a win win situation for the facist, and if they are helping to make laws to make such conditions ripe and tailor them to their needs then so much the better
I can easily see our Prisons becoming full blown concentration camps...its predictable..its already in the stages to being just that!!
but this is a huge concern because, I can see them in the future arresting someone for stealing a bottle of asprin or a loaf of bread and sentencing them to 5/6 years of hard labor..just to keep a steady source of slave labor
Our prisons are already heading in the direction of cocentration camps, the horrifying thing about it is the people in them the punishment does not fit the crime
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No.
Have you ever been to Germany? Spoken with Germans? Cracked a history book?
You're obviously hysterical.
My goodness...
You ask a question like that but offer no points of fact. I'm sorry to have to explain to you that the United States government has a responsibilty to it's citizens. Period. I don't pay taxes to fund public works in Finland. The American government has a responsibilty to protect it's citizens. Period. Since liberty has given us the the greatest nation on earth, we're exporting liberty abroad. You might think that's true, but I'm guessing there's not much that will change your mind. By out actions in World War two, when we declared war on Germany, despite NOT having been attacked by German. Why didn't we just focus on the Japanese?
You approach the subject with pure emotion rather than reason. Is the government watching YOU? Have you been taken out of your bed at night and thrown into a gulag? Are you forced to join any organizations or face peril? Are you able to dissent without threat of reprisal? Any Kerry supporters attacked in the news lately? If anything, I've read/heard/seen LOTS of Bush/Cheney signs getting ripped down. Lots of Bush/Cheney Campaign HQs broken into.
Please, for the love of god, read something other than NAOM CHOMSKY. Try Thomas Jefferson.
Watch something other than Fahreneit 9/11, try FahrenHYPE 9/11
Try to be a little more open and understanding.
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Quote:
Originally posted by piratejenny:Quote:
Originally posted by Hjermsted:
There is at least ONE major parallel between the modern U.S. and Nazi Germany and that is in our prison populations.
Germany had a prison population similar to the U.S.'s in which a large percentage was made up of people arrested for non-violent (victimless) crimes. In their case: being the wrong religion, ethnicity or having the wrong sexual preference along with modern staples such as using drugs, being a prostitute, etc.
History informs us that the German prison system morphed into labor camps (benefiting corporations) and then, when the camps became too full, morphed again into concentration camps which disposed of the "unwanted" people.
Of all the modern industrialized nations, the U.S. has the largest percentage of its own people behind bars. Many corporate industries now benefit from this captive work force. Hell, even Microsoft uses prison labor to package it's products. At the rate America is arresting people while simultaneously running out of money for new prisons... what will the U.S. "labor camp" prisons morph into, I wonder?
So....
We know that people alleged to be terrorists can be held indefinitely without access to lawyers or a fair trial (see: Guantanamo Bay).
We've also seen marijuana smugglers treated as terrorists (WA State pot bust utilizing Patriot Act provisions).
It may not be the EXACT flavor of Germany's police state 60-70 years ago... but it's close enough for the same after taste: erosion of liberty.
How much scarier do things need to get?
mattro
I had been wanting to respond to this post but due to my busy life I haven't been able until now
I think this is a very real concern, people need to take a close look at whats been happening to our prison system, as you've stated the reason why prisons are so full is because most of the people in them are in for non violent crimes such as drugs etc, (selling using), and they are also being given longer sentences for these offences
Corporations are buying up prisons ( surprise surprise) , because its cheap labor, I don't have all the details but a friend of mine was telling me something recently about how Laura Bush is heading up something that has to due with prison labor,
I think this is grave indication of what direction this country is heading in...
you don't have to be sitting in a think tank to know when the ecomny gets bad, choices are limtited... most poor people either join the miltary, or steal
so its a win win situation for the facist, and if they are helping to make laws to make such conditions ripe and tailor them to their needs then so much the better
I can easily see our Prisons becoming full blown concentration camps...its predictable..its already in the stages to being just that!!
but this is a huge concern because, I can see them in the future arresting someone for stealing a bottle of asprin or a loaf of bread and sentencing them to 5/6 years of hard labor..just to keep a steady source of slave labor
Our prisons are already heading in the direction of cocentration camps, the horrifying thing about it is the people in them the punishment does not fit the crime
Hard labor? LOL.
What slave labor? The majority of criminals SIT in jail. Maybe they SHOULD be building our roads...then they might think twice about "stealing aspirin". About your stealing bread and aspirin; I'll bet you I can find, oh...I don't know....100,000 other cases involving rape, murder, theft etc. So don't pretend that evey criminal was just hungry and had a headache. No one said the criminal justice system was perfect, but it's not nazi germany.
Our prisions are concentration camps?????
Really. Well, enjoy your Koolaid.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by dietcoke:
Tsk...You really think so little of your fellow Americans?
....hmmm well, besides the fact thay keep electing idiots for leaders, they allowed Firefly to fall by the way side! I might forgive my fellow citizens for the leader thing, but dammit, cancelling Firefly was injustice plain and simple. Guess I'm a little biased.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
ROFLMAO..thanks Sarge, that was the best political point I've seen on these boards in awhile:) I say we start the impeachment process now..especially for all the politicians who own Fox stock hehehe.
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