Americans have given up
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 04:06
VIEWED: 11901
PAGE 2 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I'd just like to say that an aluminum smelting plant a couple counties away from us is closing down. This thing has been iconic in my childhood. Every man I knew wanted to work there at some point because it was such a good job. Even through the crap economy they held on. Not any more...
If anything is a bad omen, it's that...
I know round about where you're from Wish, and I know that's a really bad thing for you and your folk. It's not on the level of Detroit losing the auto industry, but a Union Shop closing in an area where you could drive 15 miles in any direction and not get a cell phone signal is a travesty.
As bad as the economy has been for quite some time now, Aluminum has been at historic lows (relatively speaking)....
In a 5 year period since I've owned my house, for instance, the price of your regular 73% cheap ground beef while not on sale has risen from around 3.79 a lb to 4.99 a lb at local grocery stores. Meanwhile, the price to buy gutters for my home without labor has not risen a single cent in those same 5 years.
This isn't because the company selling the aluminum is run by kind hearted individuals. It's not even because the price of aluminum has been flat for the last 5 years. In fact, the prices on aluminum products for your home have gone up quite signifigantly at your average big-box store in the last 5 years because people are stupid and aluminum is a quick seller and WAY overpriced there....
Here's a chart for the average price of aluminum in the last 5 years per/lb...
http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/aluminum/5-year/
It peaked at about $1.25/lb back in 2011 and now it's just around $0.70....
How the hell is that even possible, Wish?
How could a company that hires nothing but Union workers and deals Exclusively in aluminum even compete with anything today when their CORE asset is so devalued as to make it impossible to make a profit with huge payroll costs in addition to ever increasing medical care insurance costs?
It's not as if you have a bunch of Aluminium mines down there....
There is some better run outfit a county or two away that will take the current hit and absorb that business. I'm sure they'd be happy to hire anyone you knew that lost there job 6 months or a year from now at half the salary they used to make :) and/or :(
Do Right, Be Right. :)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:China! It's a one word answer, but if you want more than words, there are numbers:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here's a chart for the average price of aluminum in the last 5 years per/lb...
http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/aluminum/5-year/
It peaked at about $1.25/lb back in 2011 and now it's just around $0.70....
How the hell is that even possible, Wish?
www.statista.com/statistics/264624/global-production-of-aluminum-by-co
untry/
United States metric tons of aluminum smelter production per year
2010 1,726,000
2011 1,986,000
2012 2,070,000
2013 1,946,000
2014 1,720,000
China
2010 16,200,000
2011 18,100,000
2012 20,300,000
2013 22,100,000
2014 23,300,000
Wiki has a list of closed American aluminum smelters. The United States mined production of bauxite for primary aluminum production is insignificant. In 2013, the US mined only 1.3 percent of the bauxite it used, US mined production being less than 0.1 percent of world production. US production of primary aluminum peaked in 1980 at 4.64 million metric tons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_industry_in_the_United_States
You can also blame recycling scrap aluminum for American smelters closing.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I'd just like to say that an aluminum smelting plant a couple counties away from us is closing down. This thing has been iconic in my childhood. Every man I knew wanted to work there at some point because it was such a good job. Even through the crap economy they held on. Not any more...
If anything is a bad omen, it's that...
interesting vid here
pretty bad - former Bush Military Official talking
I don't think its too late to fix the corruption
and turn this around
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:The idea that we can even influence Washington DC.
What exactly have American's given up Sigs?
We live in an oligarchy, pure and simple. People have thrown up their hands and quit trying for anything different.
Debt has gone throught the roof, its now TRILLIONS
poverty is very bad
but I think something can still be done
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'd just like to say that an aluminum smelting plant a couple counties away from us is closing down. ... If anything is a bad omen, it's that...
Yes, it's a bad omen for your local economy. Generally, when heavy-industry jobs go - steel, auto, coal, timber - they don't come back.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
taking it uptheass from the Saudi
Saudi Arabia and other Persian Gulf countries are scooping up farmland in drought-afflicted regions of the U.S. Southwest, and that has some people in California and Arizona seeing red.
Privately held Fondomonte California on Sunday announced that it bought 1,790 acres of farmland in Blythe, California — an agricultural town along the Colorado River — for nearly $32 million. Two years ago, Fondomont's parent company, Saudi food giant Almarai, purchased another 10,000 acres of farmland about 50 miles away in Vicksburg, Arizona, for around $48 million.
But not everyone likes the trend. The alfalfa exports are tantamount to "exporting water, because in Saudi Arabia, they have decided that it's better to bring feed in rather than to empty their water reserves, said Keith Murfield, CEO of United Dairymen of Arizona, a Tempe-based dairy cooperative whose members also buy alfalfa. "This will continue unless there's regulations put on it."
In a statement announcing the California farmland purchase, the Saudi company said the deal "forms part of Almarai's continuous efforts to improve and secure its supply of the highest quality alfalfa hay from outside the (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) to support its dairy business. It is also in line with the Saudi government direction toward conserving local resources."
Alamarai did not respond to CNBC requests for an interview.
"We're not getting oil for free, so why are we giving our water away for free?" asked La Paz County Board of Supervisors Chairman Holly Irwin, who represents a rural area in western Arizona where food companies affiliated with the Saudis and the United Arab Emirates have come to farm alfalfa for export.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I'll post the link to the entire interview - but this is apropos of 'Americans have given up'. Or maybe of the 'what is society?' question. Or perhaps the 'Insurance' thread.
The observation comes from a highly experienced former GOP staffer:
How should we think about the deep state? Is it an elite conspiracy? A loosely defined social group? A network of specific institutions? How should we conceive of it?
Well, first of all, it is not a conspiracy. It is something that operates in broad daylight. It is not a conspiratorial cabal. These are simply people who have evolved [into] a kind of position. It is in their best interest to act in this way.
And given the fact that people would rather know about Kim Kardashian than what makes up the budget or what the government is doing in Mali or Sudan or other unknown places, this is what you get: a disconnected, self-serving bureaucracy that is … simply evolving to do what it’s doing now. That is, to maintain and enhance its own power.
In other words, he seems to think we are getting the government we deserve. The vote DOES work. It accurately reflects the ignorant, partisan, entitled, childish American psyche.
References and information:
Controlled by shadow government: Mike Lofgren reveals how top U.S. officials are at the mercy of the “deep state”
A corrupt network of wealthy elites has hijacked our government, ex-GOP staffer and best-selling author tells Salon
http://www.salon.com/2016/01/05/controlled_by_shadow_government_mike_l
ofgren_reveals_how_top_u_s_officials_are_at_the_mercy_of_the_deep_state/
Mike Lofgren
WIKI - Mike Lofgren is an American who is a former Republican U.S. Congressional aide. He retired in May 2011 after 28 years as a Congressional staff member. His writings, roundly critical of politics in the United States, were published after his retirement and garnered widespread attention.
http://www.mikelofgren.net/ - Mike Lofgren spent twenty-eight years working in Congress, the last sixteen as a senior analyst on the House and Senate Budget committees, which gave him an insider’s look at the Bush tax cuts, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, Hurricane Katrina disaster relief, the war on terrorism, debates on the Pentagon budget, and the various deficit-reduction commissions.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
The vote can work, if you work it. Unfortunately, because people are unwise consumers of media, they wind up being distracted away from REALLY IMPORTANT items in favor of titillation and staying in the comfort zone.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
A recent episode of Max Keiser (former Wall Street trader and current commentator on economics and finance) interviewing Gerald Celente of "Trends" magazine.
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/327519-episode-max-keiser-856/
I listen to Keiser but generally don't bring what he says to the board, as it tends to be so much blah-blah-blah. But I thought this interview was interesting, as Celente brings up two interesting points:
1) The point he makes the most of is
depression -> currency war -> trade war -> world war
In his analysis, major depressions have always been followed by world war. He uses the Great Depression as an example of this dynamic (altho IMHO his argument would have been far more robust had he been able to find more than one example).
There is reason for lack of repeated example - it is not a cause-effect.
The dependable trigger (for USA) is when the Defense Budget drops to record levels, we enter a War.
Loss of Defense Budget results from extended periods of liberalism. Likewise for the depression sequence above.
Therefore, the Depression sequence is not a serial cause-effect with World War, is is a coincidence or parallel with the Defense Budget, both resulting from extended liberalism combined with politicians ignoring the repetition of history.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Americans haven't given up, they've been bludgeoned to death. You tend to get depressed when you keep getting hit over the head every time you're about to get up.
#BruteForce
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
A recent episode of Max Keiser (former Wall Street trader and current commentator on economics and finance) interviewing Gerald Celente of "Trends" magazine.
https://www.rt.com/shows/keiser-report/327519-episode-max-keiser-856/
I listen to Keiser but generally don't bring what he says to the board, as it tends to be so much blah-blah-blah. But I thought this interview was interesting, as Celente brings up two interesting points:
1) The point he makes the most of is
depression -> currency war -> trade war -> world war
In his analysis, major depressions have always been followed by world war. He uses the Great Depression as an example of this dynamic (altho IMHO his argument would have been far more robust had he been able to find more than one example). My observation is that we are CURRENTLY in a currency war, and have been for three or four years already, since nearly all of the major nations (except the USA) have been deliberately devaluing their currency to (hopefully) stimulate exports.
We are just BEGINNING our trade wars- the USA just slapped an ~250% tariff on Chinese steel.
As far as World War (hot/ shooting war) it seems to me that every major bloc is saber-rattling by now: the EU and the USA (via NATO) is pushing hard up against the Russian border and fomenting trouble (via its terrorist proxies) in the Mideast, China is building islands in the Spratlys and building up its navy, and Russia is militarily engaged in Syria. As Celente says ... Nobody is talking peace.
2) The other point, and for him it was a minor one but for me really captured the USA zeitgeist (literally "worldghost", but more like "spirit of the times", overall mood) is that Americans have given up.
We people seem exhausted from fighting with our elected representatives and getting nowhere. The rich are getting richer, the middle class is disappearing, and any goals in the realm of improving our economy or setting our nation on a different, more peaceful, more productive, more equitable, more sustainable course have fizzled. The conversation has moved from jobs and debt to terrorism in the middle east, which is serving its intended purpose in distracting from the fact that the rich are getting richer and the middle class is disappearing. The wealthy use war to get wealthier, and the vast majority as as clueless as ever.
Gerald is an old guy ... older than me. He just laughs about it.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME