2 1/2 Days to Go...& Still Undecided

POSTED BY: BrownShirtsRock
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 3, 2004 21:20
VIEWED: 10757
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JASONZZZ

Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

But are you doing the same inspite of the fact that the economy could have gone into the shitter ever since a bunch of nuts decided that they want to come and kill your kin just b/c you are labeled American?

and inspite of the fact that we have to spend uberoodles to prop up a couple of 3rd world nations so they don't slide into an ooozing quagmire, and on top of that spending time and money being involved in 2 major conflicts.

If the president has anything to do with this juggling act while preventing us from sliding into deep depression. Yet without me having to ration my flour, eggs, and tin. That's pretty good.

Jsonzzz,
Those folks decided to come kill us, and actually did kill 3000 of our neighbors while GW Bush was on duty. We can point the finger of blame anywherre you want, but it eventually lands on the guy on duty. It comes with the job. Bush has done some interesting twisting and dodging to avoid it, but it still lands at his feet.

Just as Pearl Harbor landed at the feet of FDR.

Are you saying that GW is related to these Muslim Fundamentalists Crazies somehow? If that's not what you are saying, I don't understand where you are going with that.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:

Now, since you've brought up the mass hemmorhaging of money we've been doing to fight this war on terror, let's consider this...

Bush keeps on cutting taxes and increasing spending. Our budget shortfall is at record levels and our national debt is at a whopping 7.3 TRILLION dollars. That debt has to come home to roost sooner or later.

Bush isn't managing to prop up the economy, he's borrowing to make up the shortfall. He's mortgaging your future to preserve his presidency. Every company he's owned has either flopped or been bought out by his Saudi Arabian buddies.

I don't know where you are going with either. Are you saying that we shouldn't borrow money to keep the economy floating? How the heck do Americans buy car, houses, or even shop down at the mart? We borrow a loan, get a mortgage, and swipe a credit card. We make a monthly payment plan and pay a little bit of interest. You could take an extremist approach and say that borrowing of any form is mortgaging my future away. But you've got to do something to keep the economy from tanking and doing the noisedive jive. We've managed a soft-landing now and to keep our economy afloat and even growing a little. But you would rather that we all be sitting in a soup kitchen line and our economy in a big smoldering ruins.

No thanks.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:

And that John Edwards thing, take a look at this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/neighbor.asp

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

I don't know what the John Edwards thing is all about, but the guy hasn't made a decision or paid for a damn thing in his entire life. His only set of experience is ripping good honest working people off and killing our tort system with overburdened false malpractice lawsuits. He is an A$$.

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SOUPCATCHER

Sunday, October 31, 2004 3:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
I don't know what the John Edwards thing is all about, but the guy hasn't made a decision or paid for a damn thing in his entire life. His only set of experience is ripping good honest working people off and killing our tort system with overburdened false malpractice lawsuits. He is an A$$.

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The problem with making absolute statements is that they are so easy to disprove. This smacks of hyperbole. Has John Edwards made at least one decision in his life? Well, he decided to accept the position of Vice President on the ticket. Has John Edwards paid for at least one thing in his life? Well, the fact that he came from a family of hourly wage earners, went to public school, and was the first in his family to attend college means that at some point he probably paid for something. You see where I'm going with this? If you tone down the rhetoric a bit your statements might be taken a bit more seriously.

On the issue of John Edward's legal career... I would be very surprised if you knew of even one case that he tried. Surprise me.

We have a system of checks and balances. There are two primary ways to make sure that corporations do not harm private citizens - one is oversight by regulatory agencies and the other is lawsuits filed by citizens against corporations. Many regulatory agencies today are being run by people who worked in the industries that are being regulated. Does that seem right to you? So the main recourse becomes lawsuits. This is the reason that corporations are so strenuously pushing tort reform. Having to pay for their mistakes and injuries that their products inflict on people cuts into the bottom line. If they severely curtail lawsuits against them then they make more money. Are there frivolous lawsuits? Definitely. Who gets to decide what is a frivolous lawsuit? The corporations?

As yourself what are the motives of the people that are championing tort reform? Where do they get the majority of their donations from? Who benefits the most from limiting the ability of people to hold corporations accountable for mistakes? It's a good system that needs to be reformed, not neutered.

*editted to add:
In the interest of not diverging too far off topic I'll just add a couple of points to this post. I purposefully used the word neuter to indicate that the ability to hold corporations accountable through the justice system would be hamstrung, not done away with. And that would be the end result if those who are funded by corporations are in charge of reforming the system that is designed to hold corporations accountable - similar to how the regulatory process was neutered.

In regards to Edwards cases... You surprised me Jasonzzz. I didn't expect you to know anything about Edwards previous cases and you did. The cases that you talk about are some of the ones that he is famous for. Here are some others in tabular format: http://news.findlaw.com/newsmakers/john.edwards.html
In regards to the science behind the decisions, I would point you to an interesting article I found at the same site (although it's a very long read and written by a law professor) that touches on this very topic: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/sebok/20040726.html
One important take away message is that these settlements were argued before juries. Each side brought experts. Juries believed one side over the other.

There are three kinds of people: fighters, lovers, and screamers.

JASONZZZ

Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
... It's a good system that needs to be reformed, not neutered.

I'm not at all sure where you got that I want to nuke the entire damn thing. It's pretty obvious I'm for some sort of reform.

And I don't know where you've been, but his medical malpractice lawsuits with newborn babies and cerebral palsy suspected from administering of pitosin was all over CSPAN when he was first picked. Even though there isn't a single shred of scientific evidence to show.

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RICKKER

Sunday, October 31, 2004 8:52 AM

okay we're getting a little off topic here. Brownshirtsrock is wanting to be told who we think will be the better president. Just looking at the last four years of Bush's term should show anyone with any kind of attention span that Bush hasn't done a thing right since day 1. He was the least qualified man for the job. Every thing he said he would do, he didn't. in fact in most instances he did the opposite. 100,000 new jobs? 3 million! sent overseas. Peace? One retributive attack against a serious terrorist threat, and one war to get rich. Foreign relations? right! Bush personifies everything most nations dislike about America. Unwavering devotion to greed and arrogance above all others. This country is in serious need of an overhaul. We have got to change our "whats in it for me" and "I want whats mine" mentality and try to get back to being a better place a beacon of hope, return to the leadership that had generations striving to improve themselves and their neigbors. Kerry I doubt will fix our problems but I'm certain he will get us off this road to hell that will come if Bush is re-elected.

SIGNYM

Sunday, October 31, 2004 2:57 PM

I think Kerry will. Not that I agree with everything Kerry stands for (I'd get out of NAFTA for example) but he seems to have at least one foot in reality.

Reality-based thinking is not Bush's strong point.

RUXTON

Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:01 PM

"One of these men is a malignant idiot and a lifelong bully, and the other has displayed at least occasional moments of genuine courage and conviction. One candidate is patently dysfunctional through and through, and the other is not. One candidate is an integral element in a single extended corporate family clearly bent on stealing as much of the world's resources as inhumanly possible. The other, while rich, has never displayed a compulsion to commit grand larceny on a planetary scale." -- Diane Harvey.

HERO

Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownShirtsRock:
Please tell me who you are voting for in the U.S. Presidential Election and why. Maybe seeing some of your opinions will help me decide.

I'm undecided. Do I get up and vote early or wait till afternoon? Or both...

When do I start intimidating Democrats and interfering with them getting to the poles?

So many choices.

For the record:

Bush- lower taxes, tort reform, educational accountablity, and a broad war against terror.

Kerry- higher taxes, national health care, terror is a criminal issue (like prostitution), and national Defense must meet a global (ie French) test.

Nader- No war, no crime, no pollution, no sense of reality (the perfect liberal and a much better choice then Kerry).

H

SHINY

Sunday, October 31, 2004 9:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
When do I start intimidating Democrats and interfering with them getting to the poles?

Hopefully a few minutes before you are arrested for assault and violating voters' civil rights...

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

SIGMANUNKI

Sunday, October 31, 2004 10:51 PM

@BROWNSHIRTSROCK
read:
http://www.johnkerry.com/
http://www.georgewbush.com/

Then decide.

@Hero
Your record needs some tweaking.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Bush- lower taxes, tort reform, educational accountablity, and a broad war against terror.

Lower taxes - for the rich,

the other vast majority of the US population

Education accountability - to hold the teacher accountable for the students failure. Where are the parents in this picture? There are more ways to help the child's education than helping them learn to read in the "early years" (ie education continues after that). What is he talking about research? Like the rest of the world hasn't been doing this for a *long* time. Why can't he admitt that there exists a vast pool of info waiting to be used?

War - paid for with what? Taxes are lower so the gov's income is to. Fighting terrorists can done with more than just the sword. Something that Bush doesn't understand.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Kerry- higher taxes, national health care, terror is a criminal issue (like prostitution), and national Defense must meet a global (ie French) test.

You should really goto Kerry's site. You're plain wrong.

Higher taxes - actually, putting taxes back where they were b/c of Bush's horror of a tax cut for only the richest. And then cutting the taxes for middle income. Various positive affects here.

Terror criminal - Actually, his plan only differs in GW's in that he isn't going to be a war monger.

Global test - Actually not French, UN. The US is up the creek without a paddle when it comes to this terrorism thing. Without rebuilding relationships with other nations (ie coming up with a reasonable plan and in general being reasonable) the fight is already lost and will meet US soil again and again....

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

Nader- No war, no crime, no pollution, no sense of reality (the perfect liberal and a much better choice then Kerry).

I saw an interview with this man. I agree with you up to the ()'s.

He is no liberal. He's a loon and *much* worse than Kerry. Kerry is realistic, etc.

----
"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show

SIGNYM

Sunday, October 31, 2004 11:24 PM

With people like Hero who needs democracy???

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