Turkish F-16 shoots down Russian aircraft

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UPDATED: Monday, June 2, 2025 14:59
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SIGNYM

Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:19 PM

Quote:
Just to be clear SIG, you support Russia, Iran and Assad in Syria and are against what America is doing?

Just to be clear, THUGR, you support the USA and it's ISIL-allied "partners" destroying YET ANOTHER nation, destined to be filled with jihadi-loving terrorists?

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

KPO

Wednesday, November 25, 2015 10:19 PM

Quote:
So it doesn't matter if the Russian plane strayed into Turkish airspace, Turkey was justified in shooting it down?

This is your usual hypocrisy at work again I see. You really don't care if "your side" follows the rules

You're making shit up again. But speaking of hypocrisy, how come Russia is justified in protecting ethnic Russians outside its borders, but Turkey is not justified protecting ethnic Turks outside its borders, from Russian planes bombing them?

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I told you a month or so ago (By "you I mean "you" and your idiot friends collectively) that in a short while you would be cheering for ISIL.

Another brilliant Signy prediction. I'll add it to the predictions thread, thanks.

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Please firmly implant in your head that NATO MEMBER OR NOT, Turkey is FIRMLY on the side of ISIL.

Not the first murky, complex picture that you view in absolute black and white. Second behind Turkey in ISIS oil purchases of course, is the Assad regime. Does that mean that Assad is firmly on the side of ISIS? And by extension Putin?

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Some have speculated that this shoot-down was in retaliation for all of those lost oil revenues

Ooh crackpot internet speculation! Let me take notes.

It's not personal. It's just war.

SIGNYM

Thursday, November 26, 2015 1:00 AM

Quote:
So it doesn't matter if the Russian plane strayed into Turkish airspace, Turkey was justified in shooting it down? This is your usual hypocrisy at work again I see. You really don't care if "your side" follows the rules - SIGNY

You're making shit up again.

No, I'm just referring directly to YOUR STATEMENTS.

Quote:
But speaking of hypocrisy, how come Russia is justified in protecting ethnic Russians outside its borders, but Turkey is not justified protecting ethnic Turks outside its borders, from Russian planes bombing them?

It's not, and I'm not in support of that policy. OTOH, it's not as if ethnic Russians are fighting terrorist wars either.

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I told you a month or so ago (By "you I mean "you" and your idiot friends collectively) that in a short while you would be cheering for ISIL.- SIGNY

Another brilliant Signy prediction. I'll add it to the predictions thread, thanks.- KOP

It's already come true, so too late.

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Please firmly implant in your head that NATO MEMBER OR NOT, Turkey is FIRMLY on the side of ISIL.- SIGNY

Not the first murky, complex picture that you view in absolute black and white.=KOP

Oh, bullshit, you moron. There are just way too many documented links between Turkey and ISIL... the supply line/open border from Turkey to ISIL in Syria is common knowledge (to everyone excpet you), Turkey allows fighters across it border and both directions, treats ISIL-wounded, supplies arms and buys oil, colludes on its terror attacks and uses USA-supplied arms to bomb Kurds (fighting ISIL) instead of fighting terrorists. Are you nucking futz? Well, yeah, you are.

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Second behind Turkey in ISIS oil purchases of course, is the Assad regime.

I call bullshit. I doubt you can find a reliable reference for that ANYWHERE. As far as I can tell, much of the oil is being purchased by Israel

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Some have speculated that this shoot-down was in retaliation for all of those lost oil revenues-SIGNY

Ooh crackpot internet speculation! Let me take notes.-KOP

Good, it's about time you learned something!

And just remember, NATO member or not, TURKEY is FIRMLY embedded with ISIL.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

KPO

Thursday, November 26, 2015 3:55 AM

Quote:
No, I'm just referring directly to YOUR STATEMENTS.

Is this bad reading comprehension skills, or are you just plain hallucinating? Go on then, show me 'directly' where I said that Turkey was justified in shooting down a Russian plane outside of its territory. You should be able to do it with a direct quote and NO editing or editorialising.

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There are just way too many documented links between Turkey and ISIL...

Turkey has had many undeniable and troubling links with IS, it's true. Whether Turkey has a soft spot for IS, whether Turkey thinks it can control and use IS like Pakistan and the Taliban, whether Turkey really wants the cheap black market oil for domestic supply, whether Turkey opposes Assad so much that it will support every non-Kurdish rebel group no matter how vile, whether Turkey wants to see Islamic State as the single victor in control of Syria... These are interesting and important questions for adults to consider. I wouldn't worry your crazy little head about them though. You just stick to your 'US/NATO = Great Satan' mantra.

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I call bullshit. I doubt you can find a reliable reference for that ANYWHERE

Strange for someone who reviews media so widely! Oh well here you are then - reports on Assad's oil, gas and electricity purchases from IS (us Ctrl-F to find the relevant sections):

http://www.businessinsider.com/revealed-the-oil-middleman-between-the-
syrian-regime-and-isis-2015-3?IR=T
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/92f4e036-6b69-11e5-aca9-d87542bf8673.html#ax
zz3sXjsQOgY
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/world/middleeast/the-militants-movin
g-in-on-syria-and-iraq.html?hp&_r=1
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/vladimir-putin-turkey-isi
s-terrorists-warplane-analysis

It's not personal. It's just war.

THGRRI

Thursday, November 26, 2015 4:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Just to be clear SIG, you support Russia, Iran and Assad in Syria and are against what America is doing?
Just to be clear, THUGR, you support the USA and it's ISIL-allied "partners" destroying YET ANOTHER nation, destined to be filled with jihadi-loving terrorists?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

I support the coalition of nations that is against Assad staying in power and defeating DAESH. Yes the coalition led by the United States.

Again I ask you, do you support the two nation coalition of Russia and Iran. Every one here knows you do. Your being unwilling to acknowledge it is just another example of you not standing by your convictions. If you won't SIG, why the fuck should anyone else.

THGRRI

Thursday, November 26, 2015 4:12 AM

Quote.. SIG

"I hope that the USA and Turkey, and ESPECIALLY those other "allies" realize that any foreign plane that sticks its nose across the Syrian border without permission is about to get it shot off."

My response

RAHLMACLAREN

Thursday, November 26, 2015 5:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:
Just to be clear SIG, you support Russia, Iran and Assad in Syria and are against what America is doing?
Just to be clear, THUGR, you support the USA and it's ISIL-allied "partners" destroying YET ANOTHER nation, destined to be filled with jihadi-loving terrorists?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

I support the coalition of nations that is against Assad staying in power and defeating DAESH. Yes the coalition led by the United States.

Again I ask you, do you support the two nation coalition of Russia and Iran. Every one here knows you do. Your being unwilling to acknowledge it is just another example of you not standing by your convictions. If you won't SIG, why the fuck should anyone else.

CLUSTER! FUCK!

I do not want to be posting about this shit on my day off. I'd rather be gaming, building things (everythingisawesome!), or, hell, washing my dishes! But there's waaay too much crap going on that needs clarified.

In no particular order 'cause I'm not sure there is one.

- Erdogan, the President and leader of military of Turkey is a religious fundie oppressive asshole that likes IS and the USA (WTF! Conflict of interest much?)? Assad, the President and leader of military of Syria is a secular oppressive asshole that likes Russia and Iran. Both governments of Turkey and Syria are supposed to be secular. Which Pres is actually breaking the most rules? If we want to help clean up this world, we should make damn sure our allies are playing the right game.

- Assad is near about where Saddam was. Asshole they are, unlike how we actually dealt with Saddam, we shouldn't remove just now, 'cause there just might be another POWER VACUUM. Also, IIRC Assad didn't attack us. If we even have any allies in Syria (the Independence Rebels or whatever), they aren't significant enough to handle all the militant groups. Their weapons would just cycle back to the real bad peoples hands (IS and the Al-Q off shoot in Syria). Assad's human rights violations on Wiki are a surprisingly not long list. If were going to deal with the bad stuff, then we should do the worst first, and that's IS.

- If Erdogan stepped down and a more moderate took over that might HELP A BIT!

- If the Russians were using the exact same flight path each time, then the jets were crossing a piece of Turkey only at most 3 miles across. Depending on how fast they were going, they might not have had time to notice details of the land, if they were even looking for it. If I was doing this accidentally, it might be because I'm focused on the lay of the land to the left in Syria.

- Did the Russian jets' flight paths really NEED to loop that far north so close to Turkey. I think they may have thought it safer if they flew over known Kurdish lands, than the lands held by "unknowns".

- Countries should have the sovereignty to protect their airspace, However is shooting down the plane then murdering the pilots when they're most vulnerable, the smartest thing to do if you're not at direct war with them? Future repercussions people! Also, show some damn mercy sometimes!

- If I were I Russian Pres bent on regional domination (HY-PATHETIC-ALLY), and wanted my warships to have free reign of at least the Mediterranean, I would definitely need to be able to get through the Turkish Straits relatively unhindered. The ports in Crimea would be pretty useless if the ships couldn't go anywhere. I could see a Russian military interest in provoking Turkey to be closer to justified in later actions.

- In this mess, or at all, we don't need to be pissing off Iran when, although we still don't entirely trust each other, with trying to broker a nuclear deal, we've been closest to peaceful non-sanctiony relations for as far back as ANYONE can rem

KPO

Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:16 PM

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*snort* That's going to leave a mark.

What doesn't kill her makes her crazier.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Thursday, November 26, 2015 6:34 PM

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Assad is near about where Saddam was.

Long past it, I would say. Certainly in terms of civilians killed.

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Did the Russian jets' flight paths really NEED to loop that far north so close to Turkey.

This is the thing, the whole thing is really arrogant and provocative to Turkey. Bombing ethnic Turks, armed groups that Turkey is supporting, right on the edge of the Turkish border? When Turkey is a NATO state and has a nationalist president? This was complete idiocy from the Russians, and they ignored all the warnings.

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they are inadvertently trying to go after IS; as asshole as Assad is, he's against IS.

Actually it's complicated. IS has been a boon for Assad, as everyone is terrified of removing him now. There are plenty of reports that Assad has worked with IS, bought oil/gas off them, had truces with them while he's focussed on attacking the other rebels... At best IS are his 'convenient' enemies, at worst they have an ongoing, cooperative relationship. Look at where Assad's main military offensives are, and where Russian planes are bombing - are they targeted against IS areas? The hell they are. They're against the FSA and other anti-Assad rebels.

It's not personal. It's just war.

RAHLMACLAREN

Thursday, November 26, 2015 7:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Did the Russian jets' flight paths really NEED to loop that far north so close to Turkey.

This is the thing, the whole thing is really arrogant and provocative to Turkey. Bombing ethnic Turks, armed groups that Turkey is supporting, right on the edge of the Turkish border? When Turkey is a NATO state and has a nationalist president? This was complete idiocy from the Russians, and they ignored all the warnings.

*You'd think a skilled enough pilot could pull off a loop-de-loop or some other maneuver to narrow the turning radius.

It could even be Russia is trying to do a bit like we did to get into WWI; take an accidental hit (Lusitania) publicly, then a few more (merchant marine ships) to seal the deal.

*

Quote:
Quote:
they are inadvertently trying to go after IS; as asshole as Assad is, he's against IS.

Actually it's complicated. IS has been a boon for Assad, as everyone is terrified of removing him now. There are plenty of reports that Assad has worked with IS, bought oil/gas off them, had truces with them while he's focussed on attacking the other rebels... At best IS are his 'convenient' enemies, at worst they have an ongoing, cooperative relationship. Look at where Assad's main military offensives are, and where Russian planes are bombing - are they targeted against IS areas? The hell they are. They're against the FSA and other anti-Assad rebels.

I was trying to make it too simple. Silly me - damn reality.

*ETA

Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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