Michael Moores' F 9/11... will you see it?
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 3, 2004 20:30
VIEWED: 28912
PAGE 13 of 14
With apologies to Jasonzzz, I have to comment on these Moore bashing websites. I'm all for arguing with Moore's statements (yes, the "not a single American" line is not accurate. Though it's easy to see that he prolly meant that no American on American soil, the way he said it was sloppy to the point of irresponsibility), but I have a real hard time giving credence to the extensive inferences. To wit:
Quote:
The third part, on Iraq, has several outright falsehoods--such as the Saddam regime's murder of Americans, and the regime's connection with al Qaeda. Other scenes in the third part--such as Iraqi casualties, interviews with American soldiers, and the material on bereaved mother Lila Lipscomb--are not blatant lies; but the information presented is so extremely one-sided (the only Iraqi casualties are innocents, nobody in Iraq is grateful for liberation, all the American soldiers are disillusioned, except for the sadists) that the overall picture of the Iraq War is false.
Moore's movie exists in the context of a debate. The opposing opinion, which anyone can get from any number of media, is assumed. Moore's movie is an answer to the prevailing neo-con position. With his "extremely one-sided" information he is saying, "No, not according to the people I talked to." No, we do not only destroy military targets in Iraq. No, our troops are not united behind Bush's agenda. Our troops are not above sadism and racism.
So many people have formed their opinion of Moore before seeing a singly frame of his movie. And they take that opinion and look for ways they can use F 9/11 to justify that opinion. Relentless assumptions don't make an argument.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Let's see...
Islamist Extreemist Terrorists kill just over 3000 business people and Pentagon personel and what happens?
... the USA bombs women and children, tortures women and children, murders 10s of thousands in a illegal war on a country that has no connection to the terrorist attacks mentioned above.
Some fat guy in Michigan makes a movie to attack GWB and his White House for that.
Just goes to show how insane America is.
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
THE WEBSITE BELOW IS A MUST SEE!!!
CrevanReaver, I've seen you post the same link when the topic of Fahrenheit 911 came up on another thread. What I have yet to see is an analysis from you on which points of the linked article you agree with based on seeing the film. Some questions immediately come to mind. Have you seen the movie? If yes, which of the points in the article do you see as accurate based on what you saw in the movie? If no, then how do you know the article you are advertising is a valid representation?
But I guess the more important question to me is why you are advertising this article. Should I read this article after I have seen the movie? Should I read this article before I see the movie? Should I read this article instead of seeing the movie? Should I read this article and then use it to convince people not to see the movie? What is the behavior that you are hoping results from someone who follows the link and reads the article?
I don't know Dave Kopel from Adam. You respect his work enough to advertise his article. Why?
Where I'm going with this is that it's easy to post a link. Sometimes I will follow a link with no additional information other than the person who posted the link. Most of the time I need to have more information than just the link itself to bother going and reading an article. There's just too much on the web for me to follow every single link posted so I use various bits of information as filters: does the summary of the link include enough information to let me know I will find the article interesting, is the author of the article someone I have had previous experience with, is the person posting the link someone whose judgement I have had previous experience with, etc.
Just curious.
Okay. That was part I. Now we move on to part II. The decision of Disney to not distribute this movie has proven to be a catastrophic business decision and the decision makers at Disney should answer to the shareholders. This is especially evident in the year 2004 when Disney has had a large number of disastrous movies. Distributing Fahrenheit 911 would not have made this year successful, but it would have staunched the bleeding. I've been playing around with numbers and trying to figure out what exactly it cost Disney to try to kill this movie.
Here are the movies released by Buena Vista this year ranked in order of domestic box office (in millions. 000.U means I couldn't find this information). Note that the first two movies are still in theaters. The Village has started to wane while The Princess Diaries 2 is still generating good business.
domestic gross + international gross = total gross / production cost + est. marketing cost = total cost - movie title
110.8 + 030.8 = 141.6 / 060.0 + 040.0 = 100.0 - The Village
076.8 + 000.5 = 077.3 / 040.0 + 000.U = 040.0 - Princess Diaries 2
067.3 + 040.6 = 107.9 / 100.0 + 025.0 = 125.0 - Hidalgo
064.4 + 000.0 = 064.4 / 000.U + 000.U = 000.U - Miracle
051.3 + 107.5 = 158.8 / 120.0 + 040.0 = 160.0 - King Arthur
050.0 + 028.2 = 078.2 / 100.0 + 000.U = 100.0 - Home on the Range
039.7 + 035.9 = 075.6 / 035.0 + 025.0 = 060.0 - The Ladykillers
037.5 + 010.6 = 048.1 / 035.0 + 000.U = 035.0 - Raising Helen
029.3 + 002.5 = 031.8 / 025.0 + 000.U = 025.0 - Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen
023.9 + 019.8 = 043.7 / 110.0 + 030.0 = 140.0 - Around the World in 80 Days
022.4 + 001.6 = 024.0 / 107.0 + 030.0 = 137.0 - The Alamo
006.5 + 000.0 = 006.5 / 010.0 + 000.U = 010.0 - Teacher's Pet
000.3 + 000.0 = 000.3 / 000.U + 000.U = 000.U - America's Heart and Soul
580.2 + 278.0 = 858.2 / 742.0 + 190.0 = 932.0 - Total Buena Vista 2004 release
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I've changed my mind on this.
I will see this movie. I have seen "Bowling for Columbine", and last night I watched "Roger and Me" (his best movie IMHO, and the closest to a true documentary). Though I disagree with the majority of Michael Moore's politics, I have to say I find his movies (notice I didn't state documentaries) entertaining, much like I would a good Quentin Tarantino flick. He's far from an unbiased documentarian and I take the majority of what he says with a grain of salt, but he is a fantastic, talented propaganda movie maker.
I also think he is an absolute marketing genius. He will never go hungry (not that he couldn't stand to lose a pound or 400), of this I'm sure hehe.
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UCSD Professor of Political Science Branislav L. Slantchev has written a stunningly sobber review of F911.
http://www.gotterdammerung.org/film/reviews/f/fahrenheit-911.html
BTW, I went and saw Team America the other day and it fan-freaking-tastic. MM had a great scene in it. Those two guys didn't hold back anything from anyone at all. Everybody gets it.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
I've changed my mind on this.
I will see this movie. I have seen "Bowling for Columbine", and last night I watched "Roger and Me" (his best movie IMHO, and the closest to a true documentary). Though I disagree with the majority of Michael Moore's politics, I have to say I find his movies (notice I didn't state documentaries)
They are documenteries. Stateing they are "propoganda" or anything else is simply stupid... yes, the people on American TV are stupid when they accuse Moore of bias.
How do I know this? Because ALL documentaries have a particular point of view. That's why they are called documentaries! If it was a so called "balanced" point of view then that would be journalism.
Micheal Moore is Americas foremost political documentarian, he has won awards around the world and is respected for his work. The lashing Moore takes from the so called "Liberal Media" shows the one true fact about the so called "Liberal Media" - that it is really a "Right Wing Media" controlled by corporate interests that support the Bush Junta and they will say anything to put Bush into the White House.
Which I just pointed out, because calling Moores movie anything but a documentary is clearly bullplop.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
UCSD Professor of Political Science Branislav L. Slantchev has written a stunningly sobber review of F911.
http://www.gotterdammerung.org/film/reviews/f/fahrenheit-911.html
This guy is full of shit.
"I believe the above represents a fair assessment of what the film tells. As one should have noted already, I have studiously avoided labeling Mr. Moore's product a documentary, for one the film most certainly is not."
Of course it's a documentary. Stating it isn't is a lie.
His article is pseudo-intellectual pap ment to rationalize a point of view. Sentences like this one:"I firmly believe that Mr. Moore's behavior here is absolutely despicable." show this writer has an agenda.
A true writer would only argue the facts presented without colouring with comments like this one, especially so early in the essay.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
UCSD Professor of Political Science Branislav L. Slantchev has written a stunningly sobber review of F911.
http://www.gotterdammerung.org/film/reviews/f/fahrenheit-911.html
This guy is full of shit.
"I believe the above represents a fair assessment of what the film tells. As one should have noted already, I have studiously avoided labeling Mr. Moore's product a documentary, for one the film most certainly is not."
Of course it's a documentary. Stating it isn't is a lie.
His article is pseudo-intellectual pap ment to rationalize a point of view. Sentences like this one:"I firmly believe that Mr. Moore's behavior here is absolutely despicable." show this writer has an agenda.
A true writer would only argue the facts presented without colouring with comments like this one, especially so early in the essay.
It's fairly common in academic writing to provide a quick introductory summary of the material and the point of view the reader will encounter within the article. It's not likely to alter your entrenched viewpoint, so if you've read it, fine. If you haven't, no one is going to make you.
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If this bozo is such a great academic why doesn't he know what a documentary is?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
If this bozo is such a great academic why doesn't he know what a documentary is?
Wow, you would be great at the McCarthy inquisitions. But here is what I gathered from your comment.
[You in a voice over]
"This [quick pan to a picture of the Professor] is such a great academic. He [cut in of a really excited crowd - Wow!] know what a documentary is!"
That's the MM'sque answer to your begging the question.
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