Grammar Rocks

POSTED BY: maugwai
UPDATED: Saturday, October 30, 2004 01:32
VIEWED: 19692
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GOJIRO

Friday, October 29, 2004 2:32 PM

Ruxton, if you can get only one book on English usage, get the Chicago Manual of Style. It's the standard reference for the publishing industry, and most other style guides borrow from it. Only American newspapers go by a different set of rules, and those are set forth in the AP Style Guide.

ADMAU is a fantastic second reference, and I highly recommend it, but if you only can get one, CMS is the more complete of the two.

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UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Friday, October 29, 2004 2:37 PM

Someone could be impacted by a show if they were sitting under a poorly-mounted TV.

Anyway...here it is, the last school day before Halloween and everyone in the English department has chosen to dress as different literary terms. I (dressed as a lumberjack) am a tall tale. ;)

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
"I brought you some supper, but if you'd prefer a lecture, I've a few very catchy ones prepped...sin and hellfire... one has lepers."
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

RHYMEPHILE

Friday, October 29, 2004 2:54 PM

Those apostrophes at the end of "s" or "ss" or even "z" words bug me. Why? Because as it was mentioned, there are different rules for them. I recall the big to-do when "Bridget Jones's Diary" came out and everyone was complaining that the apostrophes were used incorrectly in the film's title. Perhaps I'm a traditionalist, because I prefer just the single apostrophe rather than the "s's". I think it simply looks better.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"My office! Burgled! Plundered! Purloined! Ha ha ha...loins."

-- Phil Sebben, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law

GOJIRO

Friday, October 29, 2004 3:06 PM

Actually, the traditional way of punctuating sibilants is the manner set forth in CMS, which is why Bridget Jones's Diary was correctly punctuated.

You would be a revolutionary for favoring the alternate way, I guess -- not a traditionalist.

It actually makes sense, though, when you examine the rules. "Joss's" means "belonging to Joss." The hanging apostrophe indicates joint ownership, e.g. "The deputies' guns where still in their holsters."

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is why they make exceptions for Jesus, Moses, and Greek names. That just muddies the waters, and leads to discussions such as this one.

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ANKHAGOGO

Friday, October 29, 2004 5:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shiny:
Quote:
Originally posted by meleaux:
Also a local pronunciation of ASK- as AXE. "she axed me to go with her" It makes me literally cringe.

Count me in as a cringer. My cable company (Comcast) keeps running these ads where the family pronounces picture as PITCHER.

Oh,how I HATE that "axe" thing!!
Here's a few that makes me just freak out -
"ret" instead of "red". There is no T in the word red!!
"cent", as in "I have fifeteen cent".
Sorry, I'm not as touchy about "pitcher", mainly because that's a very common pronunciation of the word "picture" around here, so it really doesn't even register when I hear it.

There is also this habit people having of using one word when they mean another, apparently thinking the two are synonyms.
And heck,even the freakin' thesaruses are really bad about this.
I looked up "respect" (as a verb), and among other things,it had "revere"and "admire" listed.
Ok, "respect" and "revere" are NOT the same thing AT ALL.
"Respect" and "admire" aren't the same thing, either!You don't even have to respect someone to admire them, so how can they be the same?

Makes. Me. Crazy.

There's some crap puncutation for ya.

Audie Murphy could have had Sylvester Stallone for breakfast.

ANKHAGOGO

Friday, October 29, 2004 7:30 PM

Yeah, and I just realized most of my gripes are semantic, and not grammatic. Perhaps I should start a semantic thread.

Audie Murphy could have had Sylvester Stallone for breakfast.

MANIACNUMBERONE

Friday, October 29, 2004 7:43 PM

Sorry for my slow reply, Ruxton. Regarding your malformed sentence...

"I had an argument with a fellow (male) editor some years back, concerning the use of the term "late.""

Should prolly be...

Some years back, I had an argument with a fellow (male) editor concerning the use of the term "late."

I didn't want to make you mad or nuthin.
I just thought it was funny.

ASTRIANA

Friday, October 29, 2004 8:38 PM

The Gregg Reference Manual, Ninth Edition (Page 168, Sections 630-631) has the following to say about the use of apostrophes showing possession for words ending in "s" or the "s" sound.

Quote:
630
a. To form the possessive of a singular noun not ending in an s sound, add an apostrophe plus s.
my lawyer's advice
a child's game
Gloria's career
Mr. and Mrs. Goodwin's party
Alzheimer's disease
Down's syndrome

b. When a singular noun ends in a silent s, add an apostrophe plus s.
Illinois's highways
Arkansas's mountains
the corps's leadership
Des Moines's mayor

631 To form the possessive of a singular noun that ends in an s sound, be guided by the way you pronounce the word.

a. If a new syllable is formed in the pronunciation of the possessive, add an apostrophe plus s.
your boss's approval
the witness's reply
Congress's attention
Dallas's business district
Mr. and Mrs. Morris's plane tickets
Phoenix's suburbs
Ms. Lopez's application
Mr. Marsh's office
my coach's training regimen

b. If the addition of an extra syllable would make a word ending in an s hard to pronounce, add the apostrophe only.
Mrs. Phillips' request
Mr. Hastings' proposal
the Burroughs' condominium
Los Angeles' freeways
New Orleans' restaurants
Jesus' parables
Moses' flight from Egypt
for goodness' sake (see Section 646)
Achilles' heel
But: Achilles tendon

Note: Individual differences in pronunciation will affect the way some of these possessives are written. For example, if you pronounce the possessive form of Perkins as two syllables, you will write Mr. Perkins' kindness; if you pronounce the possessive of Perkins as three syllables, you will write Mr. Perkins's kindness. The important thing is to listen to your own pronunciation. When you hear yourself pronounce the possessive of boss as two syllables (boss's) and the possessive of witness as three syllables (witness's), you will not be tempted to write your boss' approval or the witness' reply. Naturally, tradition should take precedence over your ear. For example, an ambassador to Great Britain is appointed to the Court of St. James's (not, as you might expect, Court of St. James).

c. When forming the possessive of any noun ending in s (for example, Mr. Hodges), always place the apostrophe at the end of the original word, never within it.
Mr. Hodges' message (Not: Mr. Hodge's message)

~Astriana~
~Mostly-Invisible Long-Winded Goddess of Inter-Board Communication and Diplomacy a/k/a El Jefe Magnifico's Mistress... of Communications and Harems~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

GOJIRO

Friday, October 29, 2004 8:54 PM

This is just the kind of anarchy to which I was previously referring. According to the note at the end, these rules are arbitrary, and depend on how you pronounce the word in question. This is especially troublesome given it's a manual for typists, who may not know how the person whose notes they're typing up would pronounce it.

That's why I prefer the CMS/ADMAU ruling. It says that the extra s sound doesn't have to be pronounced when spoken, but should be there when written. So it would be written always "Mr. Perkins's house," but when pronounced would simply sound like "Mr. Perkins house."

Even so, by Gregg, it would still be spelled "Joss's."

Whoa, did I just beat that to death? With a dead horse? Sorry. I guess this falls into the classification of Dave's Pet Peeve.

I shall speak no more on this forever. Well, at least in this thread.

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ASTRIANA

Friday, October 29, 2004 9:20 PM

*Laughing out loud and spelling it!*

Yeah, you're right. By Gregg's definition, it'd still be "Joss's."

~Astriana~
~Mostly-Invisible Long-Winded Goddess of Inter-Board Communication and Diplomacy a/k/a El Jefe Magnifico's Mistress... of Communications and Harems~

...I'm still free,
You can't take the sky from me.

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