Club Confused
POSTED BY: KaySky
UPDATED: Thursday, March 31, 2005 04:54
VIEWED: 29368
PAGE 15 of 15
chronicthehedgehog:
First: Dude, I wasn't ignoring you. I got reeeaaallly sick Sun-Mon (think Linda Blair), then I got sidetracked with other altruistic endeavors. Did I mention the whole sainthood thing? While many miraculous events -- not just three -- have surrounded my life, there have also been many events and personal acts that only Jesus is gonna be able to get me out of. So, I'm not getting a letter from the Vatican, ever, unless they decide I owe 'em for that unpaid subscription to Boy's Life, circa 1972... (Ummm, oops!)
Second: All attempts at humor aside, yes, that definititely sounds like the kind of hatred I was talking about, or at least one of the types. Very dangerous. The kind of hatred that scares me most is the off-the-cuff, habitual and sincere, "I hate Joe/sephine, and I'm going to go out of my way to make her/his life a living hell. And if s/he offs her/imself as a result of how thorough a job I've done, I will rub my hands in glee, then dance on the grave."
That kind of hatred is really out there in the world, it's really just that casual and callous, and it's not just 'born rotten' people practicing it. Lot's of good people wind up being just as casual about hatred, and I suspect it's because of experiences very much like yours, or even because of experiences very much like the lady in question. There's two sides to every story, and I guarantee both participants are hero/ines in their version. (NB: The same is true of international conflicts and national politics, folks. Hello? Is this thing on?)
Now, in your defense, human beings have an unnerving tendency to forget that they're still animals. "We're humans," they think, "and evolved past such petty drives as mating instincts and pecking orders!" Well, take the kiddies out of the room so they don't hear this, but, "Bullshit!" Human beings are every bit the social apes they ever were, and pecking order conflicts arise in every social environment (yes, even in church). One can be aware of the situation and try to negotiate a peaceful resolution; but, that's only gonna work if everybody's on the same page. Good luck finding that group of associates...
Following the analogy a bit further, your country's Barbara Woodhouse was a phenom of dog training (and some said owner training) by utilizing pecking order, establishing herself as the 'Alpha'. She said the only dog she could not train was the one who had no sense of the pecking order, one that was "schizophrenic". Reading your post, I'm inclined to believe one or a combination of the following:
1. The young lady in question has no innate sense of pecking order. She doesn't register the subtle cues of body language and facial expression. While it's quite natural for individuals of our species to seek out and associate with others (no one is a natural exclusive loner), it's also natural to eventually settle into one's place within the group; the conflict and scuffle don't last for two years. Luckily for humans, we are not so tied to one specific group as dogs, and can migrate to other groups if we are unsatisfied with our assigned place in the 'pack'. If we find an attractive pack (or are born into one, in the case of childhood friends), and then play pecking order games until we find an equilibrium within the group -- where everyone has a role and is comfortable with it -- then we are all perfectly happy. When someone else comes along, wanting to join the pack, that equilibrium is upset right down the ranks. That's why there's resistance to such overtures from the outsider. That's why, even in human 'packs', there's at least one Alpha: To settle disputes that don't settle themselves.
2. Your pack either has no Alpha, or the Alpha is not doing her/his job. That particular Somebody should have confronted the lady in question and shown her her place, or shown her the door, in no uncertain terms. Generally speaking, this would have been a female in the group; for a male misfitting i
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but, zoid, was she a natural redhead?
both curious AND confused,
Maribeth (embers)
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I think I can say something about the nature of hate that I've not seen yet.
Background: I try to always remember we are all one; everyone out there is who I might be if I had been born into thier body and life, I try to be as Buddist about all judgements as I can, and I truly hated one person.
To be brief, my wife's ex-husband, whom I was prepared to accept into my life as he was now my stepson's father. I never liked him much ( told my wife after I saw him yell the first time her 3 year old son might be better off never seeing him again), but during 9 years I saw him go from being bad to worse with respect to his son, always dissapointing him, making him feel unloved, verbally abusing him yet never leaving the picture as if to torture his son for his own inability to keep his family together. I even tried to talk to him as if he were a loving dad about his son, but (obviously) to no avail.
One day, when my stepson was about ten his father returned him on a weekend he was spending with his father 6 hours after he picked his son up for having soiled himself (a condition he developed around 5 yrs old due to stress about his father)
and told his son " Now I'm not having you over until next month!"
That night I was overcome with a notion: what if next time I saw him I crushed his throat (I practice mariial arts, it would not have been impossible) and tell the police he started the fight? He had a record of threatening many with that bad temper...HE DESERVES IT!
Next day I was down to just wishing he was dead.
So I feel hate is wanting someone to be gone so bad that you could actually see yourself escorting them off this mortal coil yourself. Somewhat unsettlin'.
Epilogue to the above: after not visiting his son ( then 13)for months he saw him for a couple of hours one day, and then killed himself with multiple rattlesnake bites to his chest while drunk the next week. It was his pet.
He hated himself more than I or anyone else ever did.
Feel sorry for however life twisted him, but won't say the world would be better if he stayed.
My one and only absolutly serious post.
Chrisisall
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chrisisall:
I think I said something similar in one of my first (very long-winded) posts on the topic; but here goes again: Sometimes you cannot mend the fundamental disconnect that separates you from another. In my case, since I never hate, it's because that other is on a self-destructive jag. They simply can't pull themselves out of the downward spiral, for whatever reason. They're not ready to receive help and will drag you down with them, if you come within arm's reach of them, like a drowning man.
As the father of a 'non-biological' daughter, whose genetic father used to routinely physically abuse my wife in the most horrific way when they were married, and who neglected his daughter during and after the divorce, I can relate to what you're saying. We avoided him, helped by the courts initially (I think he'd have eventually worked up the alcoholic fortitude and finished the job), and then by moving lock, stock and barrel beyond his reach to the US. But, I did not hate him; mostly, I just felt very sad for him, and for all those his behavior hurt. Of course, I was not forced into regular contact with him as you were with your son's biological father; I didn't have to deal with the primal drive to protect my family. That's a huge difference in our lives. (Did I mention the many miracles of my life? I have been blessed by my God, and I don't care who knows it.)
I encouraged my daughter to stay in contact with him, but he never returned her letters. She finally, as a 24-year old, had an extended telephone conversation with him, and they planned a reunion in the UK. Within two weeks of the reunion (with her tickets already purchased), the local PCs found him hanged in his loft. It was officially ruled a suicide; but, he had notoriously crossed many people (including several of the kind you don't cross), and there was some speculation centering around him committing suicide so close to his reunion with his estranged daughter. At any rate, the truth now lies beneath the bosom of the good earth. Still, pretty similar to your experience in that respect, no? And my word upon its veracity.
My father had two estranged children from failed marriages (mothers remarried and relocated to other areas). It tortured him until the day he died, and he took great pains to amplify that torture upon himself throughout his life. How did it affect me? I felt every cut he inflicted upon himself. It hurt me as much as beating me ever could, to see a man so thoroughly destroy himself from guilt and having a piece of his soul ripped from him.
God rest my Dad, and my daughter's Dad. There is no hate in me.
Respectfully,
zoid
P.S.
So, okay, I'm going to go off and cry for a while now. But before I do, thank your incarnation of God of Infinite Names that you didn't actually kill your son's father. And if you believe in karma, repent the memory of the urge.
_________________________________________________
Never more apt, for me...
"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity
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Zoid, I do feel horrible that that urge came over me, I can only say that unless he had ever viciously attacked me or my family there was never any real chance of my putting that thought into action.
I believe we're all here to teach eachother something, sometimes things we'd rather not learn (but might need to, anyway).
I thank you for your heartfelt responce.
Peace, brother.
Chrisisall
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