First Amendment no big deal, students say.

POSTED BY: sgtgump
UPDATED: Monday, February 14, 2005 22:27
VIEWED: 8613
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SGTGUMP

Monday, January 31, 2005 10:08 PM

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/

I think this is scarier than the Chimera thing.

"Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter." Letter from Thomas Jefferson to Col. Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787.

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Monday, January 31, 2005 10:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by sgtgump:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6888837/

I think this is scarier than the Chimera thing.

"Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories."

Now, I know that this a very cleverly got up link to The Onion, because that's the only rational explanation.

"I threw up on your bed"

ANARKO

Monday, January 31, 2005 10:24 PM

I found this link on the Drudge Report.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&u=/usatoday/20050131/ts_
usatoday/usstudentssaypressfreedomsgotoofar&printer=1

THATWEIRDGIRL

Monday, January 31, 2005 10:25 PM

The chimera thing is a bit creepy...but this!

What have the schools been teaching the kids about the first amendment? I'm tempted to take over mtv, fox, seventeen magazine, and teen people, and tell the kids i thought it was too suggestive. Wow.

Okay, I'm better now, got the knee jerk reaction out.

I've noticed most of the teens that work with me have little understanding of the US government. It scares me to think these kids are going to be in charge someday--I sound like my father.

www.thatweirdgirl.com

XENOCIDE

Monday, January 31, 2005 10:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Misguided By Voices:

Now, I know that this a very cleverly got up link to The Onion, because that's the only rational explanation.

No the other explanation is high school civics class and a culture of censorship in education. Try to write an article about anything political in a school paper.

There are no first ammendment rights in public school and that works 'fine.' What the heck do we need them for in the big bad world.

Apologies for the unrelenting sarcasm.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

SOUPCATCHER

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 2:51 AM

Yeah, I startled my girlfriend this morning when I read the headline and let out a loud WTF. I think what scares me the most about this is trying to hypothesize why students may hold these views. I mean, I read this line, "Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories." and I'm just flabbergasted. Whatever happened to a healthy skepticism of those in power? How insulated and secure these students must feel. Either that, or just so scared that they are willing to give up rights for the perception of security.

---------------------
"What sort of raw meat do you people feed your cruiser captains, Hamish?" - Queen Elizabeth III of Manticore

NEUTRINOLAD

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 6:04 AM

Are we the Soviet Republics of Amerika yet?

I call dibs on the General Secretary of the Party position!

CONNORFLYNN

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 1:54 PM

And here's the other side of the coin..it's not just the children who are ignorant of Amendment rights.

http://www.dailyorange.com/news/2005/01/25/News/Lemoyne.Expels.Man.Ove
r.Paper-840196.shtml

As for ignorance over government, Im not surprised. The local media here interviewed about 30 college students (All registered Green Party or Democratic) and asked them some very simple questions about current politics and government, before the election.

Here was a scary response:

Question: Who is Dick Cheney?
Answer : I don't know, isn't he running for president or something?

Response : Yes, He is the current Vice President of the US.
Student's followup response: Oh..well I don't like him then.

I really think our Educational system is doing our country an injustice. I also think that before you can vote..you should at least know something about the candidates that are running, rather then this bandwagon/Superbowl mentality.
I'm not surprised that kids don't know much about the government anymore. I have a 19 year old Brother-in law who lives with me and my wife(Did not vote because he couldn't be bothered, if he had he probably would've voted however way his family did...even scarier). I asked him whether or not he learned much from his government classes..all I got was a blank stare LOL.

I remember having to memorize every single Amendment for my US Government class in 7th grade. We got tested on them and had to discuss each one and then write a paper on one of the Amendments. It is one of the many reasons I'm a political/government junkie LOL. Government is damn interesting hehe.

I don't believe they do those things today. What's even scarier is that colleges and Universities dictate what a student can believe or speak (whether the student has a point or not). One of the first lessons I learned when going to college was, Learn about your professor and appeal to their likes and avoid their dislikes when writing papers, or expect a low grade regardless of the papers academic worth.

HERO

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 4:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by xenocide:
No the other explanation is high school civics class and a culture of censorship in education. Try to write an article about anything political in a school paper.

There are no first ammendment rights in public school and that works 'fine.' What the heck do we need them for in the big bad world.

School papers are government enterprises. As such a measure of censorship or at least a measure of government control is expected. A student has the right to publish their own paper if they want to express views without these limitations.

You suggest, sacastically, that there are no Constitutional rights in schools. Quoting the Supreme Court I disagree. "FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, APPLIED IN LIGHT OF THE SPECIAL CHARACTERISTICS OF THE SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT, ARE AVAILABLE TO TEACHERS AND STUDENTS. IT CAN HARDLY BE ARGUED THAT EITHER STUDENTS OR TEACHERS SHED THEIR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH OR EXPRESSION AT THE SCHOOLHOUSE GATE. THIS HAS BEEN THE UNMISTAKABLE HOLDING OF THIS COURT FOR ALMOST 50 YEARS."- 393 U.S. 503; TINKER V. DES MOINES SCHOOL DIST. That case was decided in 1968, a time filled with much more civil divisiveness then we have today, yet the sentiment remanins the policy of the Court and the Country.

However the Constitutional Rights of anyone, including students, are subject to some level of government scutiny. If the reason is compelling enough and the intrusion as minimal as possible, the govt can interfere if necessary.

H

XENOCIDE

Tuesday, February 1, 2005 6:21 PM

That may have been the "unmistakable holding of the court" but when you pair a students ignorance of the law with the arbitrary use of power you create a culture and practice that is not in line with the abstract holding of the court. You create a culture where one can be expelled not only for wearing clothes that are indecent or have lewd sayings, but that oppose the corporate branding of the school or are politically unpopular. I don't have time now, but I will try to get the articles that go with my examples.

Not to mention the fact that the current court is a different animal entirely.

Constitutional rights as a matter of law may still exist in public schools, but as a matter of fact they do not. There is no right to privacy or uncensored speech in the public schools at the level at which they could be experienced by students. The existence of the court's protection doesn't matter if they are not enforced and abuses are not challenged.

-Eli

If voting mattered, they'd make it illegal.

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