Bush's America asks: Why us?
POSTED BY: Ghoulman
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 5, 2004 12:49
VIEWED: 18384
PAGE 7 of 10
lol. SignyM, I completely agree. My friends and I watched it and we were continually making fun of Bush's guilty expression. He always had that "But...but...but...!" look and his responses were just variations on each other. When he spoke, though, he adopted that self-righteous look and that occasional smug grin that I hate so much.
Kerry looked smug as well...but that's just cuz Bush wasn't doing very well on rebuttals.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
I am appalled at how many Americans, Christians no less, are glad we invaded Iraq. The love of Jesus, turning the other cheek - where did that go?
My non-Christian friends are the ones opposed to the war. It's kind of strange.
It's not so strange. American Christians are so used to having the power of the majority on their side that they forget that the teachings of the Nazarine aren't about getting the biggest hammer to slam your foes with.
Ask any Anerican Non-Christian, especially one who belongs to a small sect. Ask Wiccans, Pagans, Deists. American Christians take it for granted that they're right because there are more of them than anybody else. It's the same reason Americans are so lousy at learning foreign languages, I think. -- Why bother, when 2/3rds of your continent speaks English?
It isn't quite fair to lump all Christians together. There are numerous denominations and several competing theologies that make them quite a diverse group (not unlike Islam, Buddhism, etc.) Combine this with the fact that people tend to be hypocritical, regardless of the specific belief system they profess and you can get all kinds of behavior.
Absolute pacifism has only been practiced by a few Christian sects, most have been more moderate in their approach. Compromising belief with so-called practicality is hardly limited to Christianity either.
I don't support the war in Iraq, I think the national security issue at stake is oil, not terrorism. I don't think the world is safer with one despot removed, on the simple grounds that as long as the world powers are willing to support these brutal dictators and assist them in obtaining and retaining power there will be no shortage of them. At the same time the resolution to attack Iraq was passed overwhelmingly so I don't limit my dismay to the Bush regime.
By some definitions I am Christian even though I no longer go to church, having lost my faith in the redeemability of mankind, I wouldn't be offended if classification was doubted.
Homines quod volunt credunt
-- Julius Caesar
Um, I'm lost. Uh, I'm Angry. And I'm Armed.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I alos think that Kerry made an extremely important point when he said that the Middle Eastern countries and Europe ALL have a stake in a stable Iraq. And they do. If America pulls out, they would HAVE to step in. If I were President, I would simply say- "We're pulling out most of our troops. You're going to step in, but you're alos going to get a piece of the reconstruction pie." I think it's a deal that Europe would HAVE to go for.
Mind you there is the other school of thought...
If the American Military is tied up in an Iraqi meat grinder for the indefinate future, then the reasources to make trouble elsewhere will not be readibly available.
Hell, I would pull NATO out of Afganistan and leave that for them to clean up as well.
If your going to hand out pie.... shouldn't it be your pie to start with ?
Besides once the US is defeated the victors would look upon the neutral part of Europe ready to hand out their own contracts, sending their companys in now would only cause them to loose face... and heads
" If I going to get killed for a word....
Then my word is Poon-Tang "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boyd:
But its amusing me so keep arguing!
Will do
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Originally posted by Boyd:
And when your tired come down to New Zealand and enjoy our nuclear and war free country!
Thank you for the invite, and we do plan on one day going there for a vacation. But, we quite like it here in Canada
The wife is still doing term work though, so maybe I'll end up living there for a few years. Wouldn't mind a bit
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Originally posted by beenwithawarriorwoman:
I was very disappointed in Kerry, and totally unsurprised by Bush. The man has no command of the English language and nothing of substance to say.
So, true!
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Originally posted by beenwithawarriorwoman:
Kerry wasn't much better.
I don't know what you were watching, but from what I saw (and everyone outside of the US by the news reports) Kerry *crushed* Bush. To me, that means quite a bit better.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If I were President, I would simply say- "We're pulling out most of our troops. You're going to step in, but you're alos going to get a piece of the reconstruction pie." I think it's a deal that Europe would HAVE to go for.
Would will make the US more or less liked around the world?
Wait a go, you just made the US's forgien policy worst. Did think that was possible.
There is also a word for what you would do. It's called, blackmail.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
[B Kerry *crushed* Bush. To me, that means quite a bit better.
The way I see it, *I* coulda crushed Bush. My kid brother coulda crushed Bush. Hell, my dog...hehe. You get the picture. Compared to Bush, yes, Kerry did very well. But when looked at isolated from the BushMonkeyMan factor, Kerry coulda done a lot better.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arawaen:
I don't think the world is safer with one despot removed, on the simple grounds that as long as the world powers are willing to support these brutal dictators and assist them in obtaining and retaining power there will be no shortage of them.
This is only one aspect of the problem. The whole problem cannot be simplified to these terms.
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Originally posted by Arawaen:
At the same time the resolution to attack Iraq was passed overwhelmingly so I don't limit my dismay to the Bush regime.
Qualify this, because I know that the UN didn't.
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kirikoli:
The way I see it, *I* coulda crushed Bush. My kid brother coulda crushed Bush. Hell, my dog...hehe. You get the picture.
LOL, indeed
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Originally posted by Kirikoli:
But when looked at isolated from the BushMonkeyMan factor, Kerry coulda done a lot better.
What exactly do you mean by this?
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"Canada being mad at you is like Mr. Rogers throwing a brick through your window." -Jon Stewart, The Daily Show
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Blackmail???
Ooops! You're right, I guess! I'm looking at it from an entirely US view, so it's always good to get another opinion.
OTOH, the USA could sweeten it with a LOT of reconstruction contracts, a policy that promises to lean on Israel and Saudi Arabia, and perhaps make some other adjustments in trade or foreign policy.. maybe sigbing the Kyoto Protocol or the Land Mine treaty, or promising to do some generic good that really DOES make the world safer- like rounding up loose nuclear material.
I honestly don't see Europe waiting for Iraq to become a failed state. Even if (when) the USA is defeated, it doesn't mean there will be a clear set of victors in Iraq. It would probably develop that nobody would be "in charge" and since Europe depends on imported oil as much or moe than we do, wouldn't they have an interest in seeing Iraq oil exports resume?
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