Space.com: Black Triangle sightings on the rise
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Monday, October 25, 2004 15:46
VIEWED: 6603
PAGE 2 of 2
While I do concede that most or all UFO sightings could POSSIBLY be explained away as an optical illusion or halleucenation etc..
I have to chuckle at people who proclaim not to believe in aliens.. These people must surely have an over-exaggerated notion of self importance.
Whilst I am not going to say that I dont believe in GOD(just in case) the idea that life evolved on another world somewhere is to me a whole lot more believable and scientifically valid. Yet I would guess that at least half the worlds population believes in some form of deity or another..
Does that seem right to you?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"To suppose that earth is the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to believe that in an entire field sown with millet, only one grain will grow."
--Metrodorus of Chios, 4th century B.C.
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
...
I have to chuckle at people who proclaim not to believe in aliens.. These people must surely have an over-exaggerated notion of self importance.
Whilst I am not going to say that I dont believe in GOD(just in case) the idea that life evolved on another world somewhere is to me a whole lot more believable and scientifically valid. Yet I would guess that at least half the worlds population believes in some form of deity or another..
Does that seem right to you?
While I'm not taking out the possiblity of life of somesort on other planets, I do think it's absurb to think that they'd be HERE. I think it's pretty self important to think that they'd actually find us interesting enough to sit around and probe and investigate us.
Also the possible life on other planets are probably nothing like us at all, to the point that we might not recongize it as life. One of the things I enjoy about Firefly is the lack of humanoid life wandering around. Maybe MAYBE, since the universe is arguably infinite, there are humanoids, somewhere. But not anywhere close by I imagine. And by close by I mean in the local galaxy, which is pretty darn huge itself.
I can't say anything about God. That's someone else's debate.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Spacefille wrote:
Sunday, October 24, 2004 06:56
While I'm not taking out the possiblity of life of somesort on other planets, I do think it's absurb to think that they'd be HERE.
So, you think it absurd to think that in all the vastness of our universe(let alone all the other universes) civilisations have evolved to the point where they have mastered interstellar travel?
If we survive the slow death of our own little "scrap of nowhere" we will eventually become sufficiently advanced to find a way to the stars(granted it may take a while). When this happens do you suppose we would seek out other life or actively avoid it..
I think it is in our nature to seek life out. When we find other lifeforms I think it would be prudent to study them prior to making our presence known. An advanced race discovering us would be foolish to just announce themselves to us straight up..
We are being observed and i'll bet we are found lacking...
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
(Disclaimer: the following post is opinion and speculation, not targetted at Spacefille [hi, BTW], just jumping off of something she said.)
Quote:Alternatively, what I find self-important is the idea that there might not be more to this than we think.
Originally posted by Spacefille:
I think it's pretty self important to think that they'd actually find us interesting enough to sit around and probe and investigate us.
It's fully possible the Greys (to pick the most high-profile example) have a very good reason for being interested in this particular little scrap of nowhere.
Maybe it's some resource we possess, maybe it's a random quirk of fate that's made our respective genomes compatible, heck, maybe it's just that they can't get to anywhere else.
Plain and simple fact is there needs to be some kinda (non-blue-handed) investigation into this before we can make any conclusions as to what's going on --investigation that just plain isn't happening. I could do a whole rant on scientiffic dogmatism, but I'll just end with an ironic Jackie Chan Movie quote:
Quote:--Around the World in 80 Days
We are the Royal Academy of Science! We don't have to prove anything!!
-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Never fear, I love a good debate. :) *waves back at both Calhoun and Cybersnark* Now keep in mind I am an extreme skeptic, and I like to keep my feet grounded. Perhaps a little too much. I do love sci-fi, but I watch it for the optimistic escapism it gives me.
Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
So, you think it absurd to think that in all the vastness of our universe(let alone all the other universes) civilisations have evolved to the point where they have mastered interstellar travel?
If we survive the slow death of our own little "scrap of nowhere" we will eventually become sufficiently advanced to find a way to the stars(granted it may take a while). When this happens do you suppose we would seek out other life or actively avoid it..
I'm not arguing about interstellar travel... I'm sure something has done it before.
As for the slow death, I do think the human race as we know it will be extinct long long before that happens. Look at it this way... our planet is about 4.5 billion years old. It should survive about 4.5 billion years more. Of that time it's only been about 65 million of it that mammals have flourished and about 3 million of it that something even remotely human have existed. Heck even grass has only been around for about 35 million years. Our more recognizable ancestors didn't even show up until about 130 thousand years ago. I would theorize that, just like the rest of the creatures on this planet, we'll continue to evolve to the point that some 65 million years in the future we will not be able to recognize a former human, let alone communicate with them. I also think that, even if we don't manage to wipe ourselves out, we'll have gone off to explore other places, sure. But you know what? If we found a compatible planet to ours, I highly doubt we would do anything but take it over and settle it, regardless of who or what was originally there. Why? Because if you as a species or intelligence do not make measures to preserve yourself, then you are going to cease to xist. Your existence must come before all else.
This all brings me to the next comments--
Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
I think it is in our nature to seek life out. When we find other lifeforms I think it would be prudent to study them prior to making our presence known. An advanced race discovering us would be foolish to just announce themselves to us straight up..
We are being observed and i'll bet we are found lacking...
I disagree with you on two points. Humans, by nature, are destructive. More often than not we destroy what we mean to preserve. Several 100s of species of dead animals lay truth to this. We use up resources rapidly and squander what is rare. We, as a whole, oppress, kill, lie, cheat and steal to further small groups of ourselves. Even religious groups that are supposed to be charitable and loving to all mankind end up persecuting fringe groups or other bunches of humans that are different than them. If we can't even find it in ourselves to protect and love other humans/the planet we live on/the other animals we us for our subsistence, how can we possibly expect us to study a race or creature that is completely different than us? We would more than likely find an intelligent alien race that is so different than us that there is no possible way to communicate with each other and thus we write them off as stupid and expendable. Star Trek has done this kinda theorizing before and I tend to agree with it.
If we are being observed then hell yeah, we are lacking. Humans are like ants... when's the last time you leaned over an ant hill and attempted to communicate with the "drones" as they scurried about? Better yet, when's the last time you kicked an ant hill just for fun or knew of another human that had done that?
Another reason why I don't believe in aliens or UFOs is the simple fact that we're not dead yet. So if we're not dead (so our resources are not needed) and we're not very interesting, then why would they be studying us? A sense of self
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Spacefille wrote:
Sunday, October 24, 2004 16:42
Never fear, I love a good debate. :) *waves back at both Calhoun and Cybersnark* Now keep in mind I am an extreme skeptic, and I like to keep my feet grounded. Perhaps a little too much. I do love sci-fi, but I watch it for the optimistic escapism it gives me.
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Calhoun:
So, you think it absurd to think that in all the vastness of our universe(let alone all the other universes) civilisations have evolved to the point where they have mastered interstellar travel?
If we survive the slow death of our own little "scrap of nowhere" we will eventually become sufficiently advanced to find a way to the stars(granted it may take a while). When this happens do you suppose we would seek out other life or actively avoid it..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not arguing about interstellar travel... I'm sure something has done it before.
As for the slow death, I do think the human race as we know it will be extinct long long before that happens. Look at it this way... our planet is about 4.5 billion years old. It should survive about 4.5 billion years more. Of that time it's only been about 65 million of it that mammals have flourished and about 3 million of it that something even remotely human have existed. Heck even grass has only been around for about 35 million years. Our more recognizable ancestors didn't even show up until about 130 thousand years ago. I would theorize that, just like the rest of the creatures on this planet, we'll continue to evolve to the point that some 65 million years in the future we will not be able to recognize a former human, let alone communicate with them. I also think that, even if we don't manage to wipe ourselves out, we'll have gone off to explore other places, sure. But you know what? If we found a compatible planet to ours, I highly doubt we would do anything but take it over and settle it, regardless of who or what was originally there. Why? Because if you as a species or intelligence do not make measures to preserve yourself, then you are going to cease to xist. Your existence must come before all else.
This all brings me to the next comments--
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Calhoun:
I think it is in our nature to seek life out. When we find other lifeforms I think it would be prudent to study them prior to making our presence known. An advanced race discovering us would be foolish to just announce themselves to us straight up..
We are being observed and i'll bet we are found lacking...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I disagree with you on two points. Humans, by nature, are destructive. More often than not we destroy what we mean to preserve. Several 100s of species of dead animals lay truth to this. We use up resources rapidly and squander what is rare. We, as a whole, oppress, kill, lie, cheat and steal to further small groups of ourselves. Even religious groups that are supposed to be charitable and loving to all mankind end up persecuting fringe groups or other bunches of humans that are different than them. If we can't even find it in ourselves to protect and love other humans/the planet we live on/the other animals we us for our subsistence, how can we possibly expect us to study a race or creature that is completely different than us? We would more than likely find an intelligent alien race that is so different than us that there is no possible way to communicate with each other and thus we write them off as stupid and expendable. Star Trek has done this kinda theorizing before and I tend to agree with it.
If we are being observed then hell yeah, we are lacking. Humans are like ants... when's the last time you leaned over an ant hill and attempted to communicate with the "drones"NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Well, the humanoid form does have its advantages; two legs is the minimum that you need for relatively stable and energy-efficient locomotion. Only other alternatives are a serpentine tail (which'd mean a lot of surface area for heat-loss, which'd matter if you were cold-blooded) or multiple legs, which ties into:
Originally posted by Spacefille:
Because in the grand evolutionary scheme of things (see above) I highly doubt an alien from another planet would be a symmetrical being with a rounded head, two eyes, a neck, torso, two arms with appendages and legs with the same.
Two hands for manipulating one's environment, and that (thanks to bipedal locomotion) can function as extra legs on very rough terrain, or in case of injury. Articulated fingers and opposable thumbs, again, necessary for controlling one's environment. Tentacles would work too, but they tend to be weaker (no bones for passive structural support --the muscles have to do everything). Only improvements here would be to add more thumbs, possibly more arms, and maybe some sort of sucker-like attachments at the fingertips.
Having the brain inside the sensor-bulb is a kinda stupid idea (it'd be safer inside the body), but it's happened often enough on Earth. Plus it means that the sensors are as close to the brain as possible, for added cognitive speed. Two eyes is again the absolute minimum for 3D vision, though more would probably be better (there's a reason spiders never miss their jumps). The facial arrangement is a little suspicious (nostrils and mouth are necessary, but why placed just like on humans?).
Quote:Well, looking at the typical Grey xenobiologically (which is a field I'd love to work in, but it doesn't exist yet
Planets with slightly different gravity would theoretically evolve completely different beings more adapted to their environments.
):It looks like they do come from a lighter-gravity world, given the frailness and the alleged slow deliberation of their movements on Earth. They're probably nocturnal by nature, given the large eyes (some accounts suggest that the "wrap-around" eyes are just artificial membranes over smaller human-like eyes, which could suggest any number of things from light filters to some sort of biotech portable heads-up-display).
The brain-heavy look is curious (wouldn't be very helpful in the "evolutionary wild," so it might've evolved after they acheived civilization). We don't know if the Greys are egg-layers or not, but for mammals, bigger brains mean more birth trauma, which means fewer successful births. That's why human infants have collapsable skulls. Almost certainly tied into the empathic/telepathic abilities they're supposed to have.
Many Grey accounts talk about genetic harvesting, and sometimes suggest that the Greys are trying to interbreed with humans to overcome a plague (or possibly an evolutionary dead-end). This itself is suspicious; since anyone with FTL tech would likely have less invasive, messy, and dangerously unreliable means of cloning/genengineering.
My personal pet theory/speculation is that the Greys were ferried here by someone else. They don't have access to their own technology (however advanced it may or may not be) and are forced to "Macgyver" everything from existing human tech (which is why nothing anyone's recovered is definitively non-Earth made). They may have allied with (or even created) the MiBs and government conspiracies to try to "cultivate" higher tech that they could use to get home (or whatever their ultimate goal might be). Probably they're working from a base either here on Earth or within the inner solar system (mysterious probe vanishings on Mars, the moon likely being hollow, UFOs and MiBs around Mt. Ranier. . .).
All this of course doesn't even go into the other aliens in other parts of the world (the "hairy trolls" of South America, or the "Nordics" of Europe and Scandinavia), or the (supposedly Earth-evolved) reptilians that are sighted just about worldwide.
-----
We applied the cortical
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I love a good debate.
I'd say I'm pretty open about this stuff, but I like to keep it pretty grounded in facts. (If any.)
I've appreciated reading most of the comments here.
Greys and Black FT's may or may not exist but they aren't exclusive to the subject. They are only a small part of it. It just becomes cliche or the next 'cool thing to talk about'.
It's a BIG part of the problem with Ufology to ridicule the next person's beliefs if they don't match up with your own.
It never becomes a serious topic of debate.(Even with respected, investigators of the subject.)
Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs. (I don't want to knock anyone's here.)
But it's silly when the topic escalates into farce by the sceptics.
There's a theory that the UFO phenomenon mimicks ancient belief systems. (Like the 'Gods'.)
The UFO phenomenon has been around for millions of years, but the frequency of reports in the current 'space age' climate makes you wonder... The ancient gods are just replaced by aliens who belong to the next new frontier - space.
Then there's the opposite end of the story with Erich Von Danikken, who's work is a little extreme even for me. But at least he provides solid evidence no matter how much stick he gets.
It's not the clearest of subjects to talk about. It's not the easiest one either.
Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark
Plain and simple fact is there needs to be some kinda (non-blue-handed) investigation into this before we can make any conclusions as to what's going on --investigation that just plain isn't happening.
Investigations have been going on for years (and still do)in one way or another. Both in a 'blue handed' and 'non-bluehanded' way.
Project Blue book from the 50's is a good example.
The military, airforces and even police forces of the world conduct their own reports of sightings.
The CIA and DIA have made their own investigations during the cold war.
In WWII, there were investigations by the world's Governments into supposed 'Ghost rockets' in northern Europe. The Russians were believed to be testing them, but it wasn't really proven.
Even Winston Churchill famously wrote a letter to the Royal Airforce demanding an investigation into UFO's. He wrote: 'What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What can it mean? What is the truth? Let me have a report at your convenience.'
Fighter pilots in WWII and those participating in more up to date conflicts regulary claim to have see UFO craft. Various accounts were submitted to investigate the phenomenon.
It seems ashame that we'd ridule the testimony of our soldiers who were trained to spot any danger at any moment because their claims were a little 'out there'.
There are a lot more investigations worldwide over the years that would take too long to describe here...
There are also numerous serious and qualified investigators
like Budd Hopkins, Stanton T Friedman (a nuclear physicist that worked on the Roswell investigation),Allen Hynek (who wrote a report on Project Blue Book), Timothy Good, Nick Pope (MOD), Jenny Randles, who take a detailed, unbiased and factual approach to the UFO or abduction phenomenon and still do today.
At the end of the day, there's a possibility that the UFO phenomenon may be just a tool to respark the beliefs in our origins in our current society. It's no surprise that these powerful entities would be alien considering our own technological advances. It could just be nasty propaganda tapping into our fears of survival as a species. It's another theory at least.
UFO sightings are interesting but I've learned to ask 'who wants to know what kind of vehicles they drive?' It's the drivers that we need to know about.
It sounds REALLY funny, but the abduction phenomena is A LOT more complicated and interesting to study. It might make people really sit up and take notice if they gave it a chance.
It would be great to hear any constructive thoughts that you guys may have.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME