The Marvels Failure Thread
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Wednesday, January 10, 2024 00:56
VIEWED: 7180
PAGE 5 of 11
The Marvels has a 50 out of 100 from Critics on Metacritic.
It has a 4.0 out of 10 from users on Metacritic.
https://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-marvels/
It's got a 6.2 out of 10 on IMDB.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10676048/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_t
he%2520marvel
And yet it still has an 85% user score and 62% all critics score on RottenTomatoes.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_marvels
Obviously, the time to throw RT out the window was years ago, but it's funny seeing Disney buy enough reviews to make it just barely fresh.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The Marvels has a 50 out of 100 from Critics on Metacritic.
It has a 4.0 out of 10 from users on Metacritic.
https://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-marvels/
It's got a 6.2 out of 10 on IMDB.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10676048/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_t
he%2520marvel
And yet it still has an 85% user score and 62% all critics score on RottenTomatoes.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_marvels
Obviously, the time to throw RT out the window was years ago, but it's funny seeing Disney buy enough reviews to make it just barely fresh.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
At least we know who the 'access' critics are.
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The projections are in...
$47 Million for Opening Weekend (a holiday weekend too).
Like I said before, I have no idea what Disney's psychology was with their projections this weekend. Did they highball it to give the shill outfits a chance at doing damage control, or did they lowball it as per usual so they weren't embarrassed when the actual numbers come in?
Either way, there's no way in hell this thing comes close to Incredible Hulk (2008) or Ant-Man (2015) in Domestic Gross not adjusted for inflation, so nobody can lie about it being the worst performing MCU movie of all time by ignoring the inflation factor.
Kudos to Bruce for changing the model for his prediction on this one even though he REALLY didn't want to. His old model said $52.1 Million, and his new model said $45.2 Million.
We'll see how much his new model needs tweaking after the actual numbers come in.
Everybody else aside from Bruce at the-numbers and the people at BoxOfficePro can go eat a bucket of crow with their stupid ass predictions of $60 to $80 Million or more.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The projections are in...
$47 Million for Opening Weekend (a holiday weekend too).
Like I said before, I have no idea what Disney's psychology was with their projections this weekend. Did they highball it to give the shill outfits a chance at doing damage control, or did they lowball it as per usual so they weren't embarrassed when the actual numbers come in?
Either way, there's no way in hell this thing comes close to Incredible Hulk (2008) or Ant-Man (2015) in Domestic Gross not adjusted for inflation, so nobody can lie about it being the worst performing MCU movie of all time by ignoring the inflation factor.
Kudos to Bruce for changing the model for his prediction on this one even though he REALLY didn't want to. His old model said $52.1 Million, and his new model said $45.2 Million.
We'll see how much his new model needs tweaking after the actual numbers come in.
Everybody else aside from Bruce at the-numbers and the people at BoxOfficePro can go eat a bucket of crow with their stupid ass predictions of $60 to $80 Million or more.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
$47 mill, wanna take bets on how bad a drop off for next weekend? I'm going to predict over 60%
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Quote:
Originally posted by whozit:
$47 mill, wanna take bets on how bad a drop off for next weekend? I'm going to predict over 60%
I really want to say you're right.
I think I'm going to have to wait until Thursday or Friday to make my prediction though.
If there were something GOOD coming out next weekend, I'd say for sure 60% or more, but we've got the Hunger Games prequel and another Trolls movie, and that's about it.
Since I'll be rooting for both of them to fail next weekend (Hunger Games and Marvels, not the Trolls flick), I don't want one of them doing so bad the other one does well. Even on slow weekends people still go out to see the movies, and with their choices pretty much limited to two blockbuster woke flicks, a failing Scorsese movie, a 4 week old horror flick, a religious flick that did lower than expected, yet another Elvis biopic and just a bunch of stuff that's been in theaters longer than they should have been, I really couldn't say how much it's going to fall next weekend.
Some people were saying it was going to fall over 75% next weekend and I don't see that happening at all. 50 to 60% is probably a pretty safe bet, considering how bad the first weekend went.
Let's say, for shits and giggles, it falls 50% every week from here on out...
Weekend 2: $23.5 Million
Weekend 3: $11.75 Million
Weekend 4: $6.46 Million
Weekend 5: $3.23 Million
Weekend 6: $1.62 Million
Weekend 7: $0.81 Million
Weekend 8: $0.40 Million
That's only $47.77 more million Domestic on weekends over the next 7 weeks plus what it makes on Mondays through Thursdays over the next 2 months.
This is what a lot of people who don't track movies really understand. If a movie with a monster budget like this doesn't catch on fire right out of the gates, it's almost certainly going to be a huge failure.
Bruce says it looks like it did okayish overseas and says the projections are another $63.3 Million. (Unfortunate it's that high, but still terrible nonetheless).
So it's got $110,300,000 projected worldwide right now.
That's only 40% of its $274.8 Million budget (as reported by Bruce at the-numbers.com)
While not quite as bad as Killers of the Flower Moon which wrapped up Opening Weekend in dead last at 62nd place for ROI Worldwide Gross vs. Production Budget, 40% of the budget puts The Marvels at 61st place for 2023, above only The Covenant and Renfield.
The Marvels needs to make $685 Million to break even. I said after Thursday previews this was going to lose $300 Million.
Bruce says now it looks as though the Marvels will make $300 to $400 Million Worldwide when its run is over, so my prediction tracks.
But boy would I love to see it come in under $300 Million and lose $400 Million for Disney in the end.
Fingers crossed that your 60%+ drop prediction on the 2nd weekend is right.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
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“The Marvels” and the Paradox of the Superhero Franchise
How did a genre rooted in weirdness and wonder become a byword for the normative, the familiar, and the mundane?
By Richard Brody | November 9, 2023
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/the-marvels-and-the-pa
radox-of-the-superhero-franchise
When the best part of a superhero movie is the screenplay, you know you’re in trouble. There’s enough going on in “The Marvels” — enough situations with dramatic potential, enough twists with imaginative power — to develop several decent movies. Unfortunately, they’re snipped and clipped, jammed and rammed, dropped into the movie (and swept out of it) with an informational indifference that doesn’t even have the virtue of speed. The heedless rush to splash the story onto the screen leads to an appalling waste of the formidable talents marshalled to depict it.
There are so many undeveloped elements here, but one of the most fundamental is dramatic morality: one mode of tragedy is a conflict of virtues, but there’s hardly any villainy in “The Marvels,” and everyone, more or less, has their reasons. The movie, directed by Nia DaCosta (who co-wrote the script with Megan McDonnell and Elissa Karasik), is a follow-up to the 2019 film “Captain Marvel.” There, Carol Danvers (Brie Larson), a U.S. Air Force pilot who has gained superpowers (and the moniker of the title), was caught in a war between two space peoples, the Kree and the Skrulls. In the follow-up, Danvers, accused of accidentally extinguishing the sun that made the Kree and Skrulls’ planet habitable, is living in a guilt-ridden, self-imposed space exile. She’s called back into action by the Avengers’ handler Nick Fury (Samuel L. Jackson) to repair a so-called “jump point,” a kind of space portal. She’s joined in this mission by an astronaut named Monica Rambeau (Teyonah Parris), who was a child in the earlier movie. Their work brings them into contact, via a strange intergalactic connection, with a Jersey City teen-ager, Kamala Khan (Iman Vellani), a big fan of Captain Marvel comic books who also has secret superpowers and has a special glowing gauntlet to prove it. The gauntlet is one of a pair, the other of which is in the possession of a Kree warrior named Dar-Benn (Zawe Ashton). She hates Captain Marvel for the destruction of her planet and seeks to maximize her powers by capturing Kamala’s gauntlet. Meanwhile, when Monica and Captain Marvel meet at the jump point, they and Kamala all switch places with each other, thus making one another’s battles suddenly their own as well.
The results include a handful of showdowns — one in the Khan family house, several in outer space — and some derring-do with spacecraft. There’s also some gentle family sitcom involving Kamala’s parents (Zenobia Shroff and Mohan Kapur) and her older brother (Saagar Shaikh), who, to his parents’ dismay, is still unmarried. There’s some blunt and blundering comedy involving Captain Marvel’s marriage of convenience to a prince (Park Seo-joon) on a planet whose inhabitants communicate solely by song. There’s calculatedly sweet comedy in Kamala’s awkward fangirling of Captain Marvel. There’s the peculiarity of Captain Marvel’s cat, who has a mouthful of yards-long tentacles with which it can swallow creatures many times its own size and spit them back out intact. There’s the political wink of the efforts to help the Skrulls, now refugees, find a home. Best of all, there’s some mighty faux-scientific mumbo-jumbo involving a rip in the space-time continuum that could, and perhaps should, have been a movie all to itself, with special effects to match.
Any one of these many elements, obvious and familiar though they may be, could serve as the framework for a popular action fantasy. And the fact that none of the main characters is seriously in the wrong, that all are pursuing worthy ends in disparate ways, also sets things up for complexity. Another reason I had high hopes for this one is that DaCosta’s previous film, “Candyman,” the fourth film in a long-dormant horror
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While I don't necessarily disagree with anything he had to say there, he's also making the reasoning for the failure needlessly complicated. Those are all problems, many of which I've actually spoken of at great length about here at fff.net. Some of them, such as the copyright issue, I was talking about 15 years ago or more when I was new around these parts.
I've recently come to Nia's defense here because she had nothing much to do with The Marvels other than be the black lady sitting in the director's chair while the movie was considered paint-by-numbers and virtually made by committee. Since Phase 4 started, Marvel has tapped a whole bunch of unproved talent and pretended to put them in charge of $200 Million+ projects they'd have no business directing, but since they aren't actually directing anything it's easy to fill quotas and get a bunch of likes on Twitter with these choices. Nia knows this, as do any of these diverse directors that sat in a chair and did nothing while the movies with their names attached to them failed and lost hundreds of millions of dollars. But what is she supposed to do now? Go on Twitter and put that on blast? Yeah... right. She's now the face of Marvel's biggest flop by far and she's already in a very tenuous situation. She's of a protected class. All she needs to do is either stay quiet, or take to twitter and use all the approved buzz-words to explain why the movie failed. As long as she plays ball, she should still have a long career ahead of her. Hopefully she learned a lesson about playing in the Majors along the way. Maybe one day she can be Scorcese and get companies to happily give her $200 Million to make Oscar winning flops, but until then she should go back to her roots and build her catalog on smaller projects where she maintains directorial control.
And let's not pretend that it's because of "stuffy old white men" in congress we're left with an entirely broken copyright system that harms everyone. Sure... Those were the people who started this problem, but we've got a pretty diverse cast of characters in congress today and I don't see anything changing on that front. That will never change, no matter who's in congress. Money is Money and Power is Power no matter what color your skin or which genitals you mash together. Don't ever expect our crooked copyright system to go anywhere no matter how diverse you make the bench.
Here's the problem with the Marvels...
Even if superhero flicks weren't run by DEI committee in current year, people would be tuning out anyhow. Hollywood can't help but beat a dead horse. And for most normal folk who didn't grow up reading comic books, the horse died when Infinity War ended. Even the movies that weren't particularly woke failed in 2023, with the arguable exception of Guardians Vol 3. That may have not been a financial failure on paper, but post pandemic with a much higher production budget than the first two movies and the much higher average ticket price it should have made over a Billion dollars at the box office and though it's now viewed as the only successful cape flick in 2023 (and the only big-budget Disney movie of 2023 to earn them any money), it was surely a big disappointment for Disney at the time.
Disney has killed Star Wars, Indiana Jones and superhero movies now. Their live action remakes aren't anything that anybody wants to see. And nobody is buying any of the merchandise related to any of these properties anymore.
They really need to take a step back and figure something out going forward. I think they finally realize this, and that's why their only planned Marvel release in 2024 now is Deadpool 3. And it's been what? 4 years since they made a Star Wars movie?
But they also need to stop making TV shows while they're at it too, because with the exception of The Mandalorian season 1, anything they've made and put on Disney+ for either property
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Quote:The ultimate streaming service is the one run by Pirates. Everything ever made is available all the time and the price is zero per month. Why zero? Because that is the actual cost of streaming one movie. Hollywood can't beat that price, so it will use the law to force the Pirates out of business.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
The problem though is I don't know if they actually can stop creating that crap content with the subscription model the way it is today. They need to keep churning out new stuff to keep people from cancelling Disney+ and bouncing around to other streaming services. This is a problem that all the streaming services have.
Eventually, most streaming services are going to go the way of the dinosaur. It's only at that point where I believe they will start putting quality over quantity on the shows they make. There was a model where everybody could make money and be happy, and that's when Netflix was the only game in town and companies like Disney could license out their content and rotate it. Disney gets big bucks for its intellectual property while basically having to do nothing (ie: not spending any money), Netflix gets more subscribers and they don't go anywhere because there was nowhere else to go, but they're happy paying and staying because there was so much good content all in one place for a reasonable price.
That's not the model today. There's as many streaming services as there are cable TV channels. And they're not cheap anymore.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Marvel Just Had Its Worst Box-Office Weekend Ever. What Happened?
The most dominant franchise in the history of movies has taken its first major spill.
By Sam Adams | Nov 13, 2023 3:27 PM
In the days before streaming and DVD collections, I was a methodical watcher of network TV shows, tuning in every week and taping when I couldn’t, even keeping lists of episodes from past seasons I could check off when they turned up in reruns. Because I was so invested in completism, I was loyal to a fault, sticking with shows I didn’t even realize I’d stopped enjoying, because I was so dedicated to my streak. But I had a simple rule for when it was time to drop a show: when I accidentally missed an episode and realized I didn’t care. Marvel has put its fans in the position of realizing that keeping up isn’t worth the effort. They’re unlikely to abandon the franchise as a whole, but the lackluster turnout for The Marvels suggests that they’re feeling free to be a lot more selective than they’ve been in the past, to pick and choose, knowing the worst that could happen is they catch up with a thing their friends liked a little bit late.
https://slate.com/culture/2023/11/marvels-box-office-captain-marvel-mc
u-future.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack (November 11th):
Normally, this is where I'd mention that usually projections, especially on opening weekend, are lower than reality because the studio doesn't want to embarrass themselves, but I'm not sure about what Disney's psychology on this one is going to be right now.
Risk lowballing the numbers on opening night as per usual and make all the Saturday headlines even worse than they were going to be, or risk highballing the Friday prediction and possibly project low for Sunday to still come in lower than the actual numbers that are posted on Monday?
My money is that Disney's projected numbers for Friday are actually higher than reality just because the headlines that are going to come out today are embarrassing enough already. They might throw out convention entirely here and highball the whole damn weekend just to try to salvage some of the headlines with their shill outfits like Variety and Deadline and hope that not too many people are listening to the people like me who would catch them in the act come Monday if they try that.
Am I awesome or am I awesome?
The Marvels ACTUAL weekend gross Domestic: $46,110,859
In the entire time that I've been tracking movies, I've NEVER seen a studio highball their weekend prediction. Not once. Until now. And I called it.
In fact, I've said on at least half a dozen occasions when posting about a new movie that just came out that it will probably have $1 or $2 Million more when the actual numbers come in (It's all in my post history).
I'm in Bob Iger's head now.
The ragebaiters on YouTube all seemed to have missed this, but I didn't Bob. I'm calling you out.
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Political correctness is just tyranny, with a smiley face.
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