I know this doesn't really belong here but... favorite songs!
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Saturday, January 18, 2025 07:56
VIEWED: 11452
PAGE 4 of 19
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
A lot deeper than your typical love song. And really not about love so much as seduction possibly leading to a one night stand.
I think what Henley lyrics really paints are intense scenes about places and moments. End of summer, the empty beaches and lakes. Empty fields, people captured by evil dreams. Lyrics not JUST about seduction, but I feel the protagonist in that song had a ather who went away to war ("fly") and died, and that he, too, will be going away to war soon, too, ending HIS innocence.
Plus, I like his voice. And the instrumentals don't overpower that.
*****
Having all of two(!) lyrics to analyze, I think Henley (if he wrote his own lyrics) paints his pictures by contrast.
"all of two lyrics"? I'm not sure I get that statement?
I think you paint a lot nicer picture of what Don meant when he wrote the song.
(And take wikipedia with the grain of salt it deserves, but in the case of Don Henley I do believe he wrote most if not all of his music. He's FIERCELY protective of all of it): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Don_Henley
I always took "The End of the Innocence" to mean the first time she had sex. So not only a song about seduction, but a song about the seduction of a young virgin woman.
And not a creepy (age inappropriate) or rapey seduction either. I imagine he's a bit older and "wiser" from the street smarts picked up from being a musician on the road all the time, but it's not some Harvey Weinstein type abuse of power. His "character" in the song is loosely based off of himself... somebody who's "loved" a lot of women, but never actually been IN love, and doesn't even really believe in the idea of love. She, on the other hand, is still a young and pure idealist who still believes in fairy tales and happily ever after, despite the fact that she already told him that her dad cheated on her mom and left. Perhaps a small town Christian girl who is saving herself for marriage, or at least until she can find what she believes will be the one true love she will eventually marry.
I think the song lyrics deserve a bit of a breakdown.
Quote:
Remember when the days were long
And rolled beneath a deep blue sky
Didn't have a care in the world
With mommy and daddy standing by
When "happily ever after" fails
And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales
The lawyers dwell on small details
Since daddy had to fly
The start of the song here I pretty much summarized in who the girl being seduced was above. Happily Ever After failed, and it's inevitable because the fairy tales we're told when we grow up aren't real and life will let you down, just like when her father made a bad decision that changed her family forever.
Quote:
Oh, but I know a place where we can go
Still untouched by man
We'll sit and watch the clouds roll by
And the tall grass waves in the wind
You can lay your head back on the ground
And let your hair fall all around me
Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence
The chorus, which is worded slightly different every time, is an allegory for sex. Although he just thinks of it as a most pleasurable act and would consider it just "sex" or even lewder terms, he knows that she would be mortified if he did, so he charms her with his poetic talents. "Give up. Give in. This is the end of the innocence. And that's a good thing... trust me."
Quote:
O' beautiful, for spacious skies
But now those skies are threatening
They're beating plowshares into swords
For this tired old man that we elected king
Armchair warriors often fail
And they've been poisoned by these fairy tales
I never took this to mean he was going to war himself, which is what I think I see that you have done when you heard the song. I felt that along with bein
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I never thought end of innocence was about sex or physical sense, and certainly don't now.
tired old man we elected king was Reagan
Isn't this the same album as Dirty Laundry? Same vein, anyhow.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I never thought end of innocence was about sex or physical sense, and certainly don't now.
That's fine. That's what music is about. And it's great songs like End of the Innocence that people still reflect on and debate about the meaning decades after they were on the top of the music charts.
I don't think this song had anything at all to do with politics, and they were just a mere backdrop for a short, intimate encounter between two people.
Just because Don was capable of writing politically charged songs like Dirty Laundry doesn't mean that every song he ever did was politically charged.
I also don't think that the "tired old man we elected king" was specifically Reagan. Not just because it was GHW Bush that was president when the song was released either. I think that line is simply referring to whoever we had elected as president, which up to that point had almost exclusively been tired old men. This song is timeless. The fact the song came out 5 months after Bush was elected and could be applied to either Bush or Reagan can make you take a step back and realize that any kid who's ever listened to it in the decades that followed could apply it to the president that was currently in office while they were discovering the world for themselves.
The only argument against that could perhaps be a young-ish Obama, but that's only from the perspective from adults such as us who realize that he wasn't exactly "old" when he was elected... to kids and teenagers he would still seem like an old man. And he sure aged a lot in 8 years.
--------------------------------------------------
" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher
Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Let me ask you, JSF. What, specifically, do you think the line "offer up your best defense" means?
--------------------------------------------------
" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher
Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Another thing I find extremely interesting is when you mishear lyrics to a song you have loved for a long time and finding out what the real lyrics are either force you to deny them or to change in your own mind and heart what the song meant.
I possibly have had that moment right now when looking at another favorite of mine.
Quote:
t's hard to rely on my good intentions
When my head's full of things that I can't mention
It seems I usually get things right
But I can't understand what I did last night
And it's hard to rely on my own good senses
When I miss so much that requires attention
Have to laugh at myself sometimes
And I can see that I'm not blind
There's little relief
Give us reprieve, oh
For all the things I've left behind
I'm positive that I'm not blind
I'm not afraid things won't get better
But it feels like this has gone on forever
You have to cry with your own blue tears
Have to laugh with your own good cheer
And it's hard to rely on my good intentions
When my head's full of things that I can't mention
It seems I usually get things right
But I can't understand what I did last night
There's little relief
Give us reprieve, oh
And imagining the world outside
I'm positive that I'm not blind
I can't be hard on you
'Cause you know I've been there too
Learned a lot of things from you
Oh, when life gives little relief
Give us reprieve, oh
And when everyone is cold as ice
I clinch my fists and close my eyes
Imagining the world outside
And I can see that I'm not blind
Only I've never heard those lyrics and still don't when I listen to the song.
Specifically:
Quote:
There's little relief
Give us reprieve, oh
I've always heard...
This little release
Give us a brief... Oh!
Yeah... I know. Sex again.
But just swapping those two lines out changes the tone of the song.
It's not as if my lyrics for the song have to be "what he did last night" that he can't understand. It sounds like he's very confused about life in general at this point and he feels he's making a whole lot of bad decisions without the need for a one night stand, possibly with a friend he'd never have had sex with while sober, being another mistake added to the pile.
But the "known" lyrics posted on the internet really seem to fail when it goes to the chorus the final time here:
Quote:
I can't be hard on you
'Cause you know I've been there too
Learned a lot of things from you
Oh, when life gives little relief
Give us reprieve, oh
The underlined part is completely wrong. There is no "when" at all, and you can clearly hear the "eese" sound at the end of what they claim to be "relief".
And "learned a lot of things from you" could imply that he was also a virgin himself before getting drunk and doing something with a friend he regrets. He's letting her know he's not mad at her that it happened, he values their friendship and he hopes that they can get past this and still be friends without it being weird.
I've seen several websites that post the lyrics above, but I still hear the ones I've always heard when listening to the song. Until I find something official, such as the possibility of lyrics written on the inside of a CD jacket, I'm going with the ones I've always heard.
--------------------------------------------------
" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher
Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
So, believe it or not, SIX, but I know NOTHING about Henley. Altho I can remember melodies and sing along with songs that I like, I generally don't remember titles or artists or ... anything. So I dip in and out of listening to music and there are whole decades that I don't know anything about.
But having looked up a couple more songs ("Heart of the Matter" and others) he's a lot more POLTICAL and philosophical than I think you give him credit for. There's a lot on that song about beating plowshares into swords and evil men making war to get elected, and I don't think he put those in there by accident.
Edited to add: I think the end of innocence isn't when its violated. The real end of innocence is when you knowingly participate in something you think is wrong.
I feel like the song is an allegory. Needs some thought.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I knew Morgan Freeman could play God .. or The President .. but who knew he could sing?
And he's not too shabby on the cowbell either!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Who knew???
God* sings and plays the cowbell!
*As played by Morgan Freeman.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, believe it or not, SIX, but I know NOTHING about Henley. Altho I can remember melodies and sing along with songs that I like, I generally don't remember titles or artists or ... anything. So I dip in and out of listening to music and there are whole decades that I don't know anything about.
But having looked up a couple more songs ("Heart of the Matter" and others) he's a lot more POLTICAL and philosophical than I think you give him credit for. There's a lot on that song about beating plowshares into swords and evil men making war to get elected, and I don't think he put those in there by accident.
Edited to add: I think the end of innocence isn't when its violated. The real end of innocence is when you knowingly participate in something you think is wrong.
I feel like the song is an allegory. Needs some thought.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
THUGR posts about Putin so much, he must be in love.
I wasn't trying to insult him. Between his own songs and those he wrote for the Eagles, he's got some brilliant writing, very much including End of the Innocence.
I think he pulled an M Knight Shamalyan on you and JSF. You expect it to be political given his body of work so you assume that it is because of some words that pop up here and there in the song.
The politics are just the backdrop. There's a girl who's parents just split, who's just realizing how terrible the world is out there, and Don ('s character) is offering her reprieve. "A place where we can go, still untouched by man". He's telling her that "happily ever after fails and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales" and then offering her up one of his own.
I'll ask you the same question I posed to JSF last night... How else do you explain the line "Offer up your best defense?"
There's no way you can make that line fit with Defense spending and the Military Industrial Complex.
I could be off base about it being an artist seducing a virgin into a one night stand. But the song is very much about sex.
In any event, I'd put "End of the Innocence" on the top list of hilariously bad song choices for wedding. Somewhere right in between "Every Breath You Take" by the Police and "Hey Ya!" by Outkast.
Even Andre 3000 from Outkast came out and said that it was a terrible choice to play at a wedding, even though it was on every wedding playlist at the time. I read a great article where he was laughing about weddings with old white ladies dancing to lyrics like "Don't want to meet your Daddy, just want you in my Caddy. Don't want to meet yo mama, just want to make you comma."
--------------------------------------------------
" 'You're like the Nazis' is the new 'I don't like you'. That disqualifies her from marching around planet Who-Gives-a-Shit in a helmet? ~Bill Maher
Collection of links to Second's, Nilbog's and Marcos' death threats: https://cutt.ly/tkCvEX6
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME