Some Covid-19 thoughts
POSTED BY: captaincrunch
UPDATED: Monday, September 29, 2025 18:59
VIEWED: 301579
PAGE 312 of 384
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
ALSO, you're mixing up CASE fatality rate versus INFECTION fatality rate.
OK, good point.
Still, the absolute numbrz do qualify C19 az a 'super villian'. Compare it to Bin Laden and the relativ respons iz absolutely comical.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
The real pandemic solution: http://uvpk.net/
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Funny. You've never once heard me say that the best case scenario would be that the vaccine ends up killing people so the Democrats could lose half of their voters.
Therez an obvious element uv justis, or Karma wen the bad guyz get dun in by their own malicious actionz. Less so wen its idiots refuzing good advise.
Keep in mind that they arent only hurting themselvz.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
The real pandemic solution: http://uvpk.net/
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Quote:
SIGNYM:ALSO, you're mixing up CASE fatality rate versus INFECTION fatality rate.
JO: OK, good point.
Still, the absolute numbrz do qualify C19 az a 'super villian'. Compare it to Bin Laden and the relativ respons iz absolutely comical.
I agree. HOWEVER, I'm not concerned with worldwide numbers because, yanno what? We don't have any authority or any control over what any other nation does about Covid, or anything else for that matter. (Altho IMO we should give away unused vaccine doses before they spoil to nations that are hit the hardest. And wouldn't it be a PR coup if we were to give a bunch to Syria and Iran and Cuba??)
I'm concerned about AMERICAN deaths.
So let me explain my POV about vaccine mandates by copying from the "Herd immunity" thread
Quote:
Oh, BTW, I want to make clear why I'm against vaccine mandates IN THIS CASE.
It's not because I think your (or my) rights are so precious but because IT'S NOT NECESSARY.
The CURRENT vaccine does a good enough job of protecting the vaccinated, and not such a bang-up job of protecting the unvaccinated. So people who refuse the vaccine, even tho it would be medically beneficial for them to get it, are hurting mainly themselves. And, yanno, I'm not in such a hurry to protect people from themselves. It only becomes an issue if it affects my pocketbook, where large sums of tax dollars are extracted from my pocket to pay for people being stupid.
Of course, I would run ad campaigns urging people over-50 and the obese to get vaccinated, especially in those areas that have low vaccination rates. But I wouldn't MANDATE a vaccine for the average person. If people want to ignore the risk, or take the risk, or misunderstand the risk, of serious illness and death ... well, once its been explained a couple-dozen times, and in reality they're mostly hurting themselves, all you will do is create tremendous ill will.
But to go back to your point:
The comparison of bin Laden (who BTW denied involvement with 9-11) and the whole GWOT that followed, versus the pitiable money and effort spent on bringing this pandemic under control in the USA, is just another example of the CONTINUED gaslighting of America. Look at all of the money and hot air used to stampede Americans on a variety of pointless, unsubstantiated "issues". I can list a dozen biggies over the last 30 years that, with hindsight, deserve to have been shitcanned before they were ever broadcast to the American people and made a Big Deal.
People have been programmed into Magical Thinking. That "somethings" "somehow" "happen".
I think if Americans want to keep their feet on the ground and not get too wound up about trivia, they should 1) understand relative risk, in numbers 2) follow the money and 3) learn about the mechanics of the things that they fear.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Funny. You've never once heard me say that the best case scenario would be that the vaccine ends up killing people so the Democrats could lose half of their voters.
Therez an obvious element uv justis, or Karma wen the bad guyz get dun in by their own malicious actionz. Less so wen its idiots refuzing good advise.
Keep in mind that they arent only hurting themselvz.
What the fuck are you talking about, muppet.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
...instead of wiping out less people in a year than die from automobile accidents
SIGNY:Wrong
SIX: Yes. You are wrong in your assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you even have a ballpark figure in your head as to how many people die of automobile accidents every year? I do. You, apparently, don't. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIX: ... most of whom were close to checking out anyhow.
SIGNY: Wrong.
SIX: Yes. You are also wrong again in this assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you have any idea how many additional years those people would have lived if not for Covid-19? I do. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIGNY: But, good question: why not kill off a bunch of people? Maybe because if you kill off enough people, SOME wealth will concentrate among the sheeple, and the goal is to make the sheeple poor, not to make people dead?
SIX: The sheeple are already poor. You're a boomer at the end of your life who still has some of the pie. You just haven't noticed it in your own life that everyone after you is fucked.
People MY age are fucked. That handyman, that homeless sometime gardener, people in my own close family? They got fucked, too. It's not just people "after me" ... like everyone my age has it made ... EVERYONE is getting fucked. That's why there's 70-year-old Walmart greeters. Jeezus, SIX, stop feeling so specially picked on!
Quote:
SIGNY: The only winner so far is The Fed because it has 'lent' many big banks ... including international ones ... an unimaginable amount of money and now has them in thrall. The EU central bank (ECB) so far has not been able to crank up digital money-creation because the nation backstopping such loans ... Germany... won't go along with it.
SIX: No more in their thrall than they already were. Our currency has been monopoly money for longer than I've been alive. This didn't just happen in the last 2 months.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
OK
It still doesn't say what you said I said.
Keep looking.
Because if that's all you've got, yes... You misremember.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
So. Apology then?
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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Quote:The original vaccines smallpox and polio did a good job keeping people from getting sick and therefore passing on the disease. But tetanus vaccines only stop disease, and do nothing to stop transmission, since transmission is from bacterial spores that are already in the soil. So not all vaccines are designed to stop transmission, but they're useful nonetheless. And we require them, since they reduce disease and death.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
The CURRENT vaccine does a good enough job of protecting the vaccinated, and not such a bang-up job of protecting the unvaccinated.
The countries that most successfully dealt with COVID-19 were the countries that kept it from getting a significant presence in their populations in the first place. And in the initial phase they did it with universal 'non-pharmacological interventions' - border control, testing-and-quarantining, contact tracing etc. Few got sick, even fewer died, and those countries reopened earliest with their economies and populations intact. They protected the vulnerable by protecting everyone, with universal, nation-wide, population-wide measures. So I'd argue that well-employed, well-followed population-wide measures worked well, at least with COVID-19.
Anyway, I agree that when resources are scarce, it may benefit directing those resources to protect the most vulnerable. With COVID-19 they're those with risk factors like older age, obesity at any age, or smoking at any age. In other instances that population might be the young, like it was in 1917-1918; or there may be other risk factors and vulnerable populations altogether.
Yanno (DT, if you're watching, that phrase came from Frem and got used a lot here by a lot of people) Jack seriously outed himself on the 'I'm a hypocrite scale' with his 'herd immunity' thread. After refusing to accept anything out of the CDC - for example, that anyone died of COVID-19 at all, let alone the numbers of deaths - he suddenly believed the CDC when they say herd immunity might have been reached. What a convenient change of religion.
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Quote:For what? I haven't gone back into the other threads to trawl for your posts.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
...instead of wiping out less people in a year than die from automobile accidents
SIGNY:Wrong
SIX: Yes. You are wrong in your assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you even have a ballpark figure in your head as to how many people die of automobile accidents every year? I do. You, apparently, don't. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIX: ... most of whom were close to checking out anyhow.
SIGNY: Wrong.
SIX: Yes. You are also wrong again in this assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you have any idea how many additional years those people would have lived if not for Covid-19? I do. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIGNY: But, good question: why not kill off a bunch of people? Maybe because if you kill off enough people, SOME wealth will concentrate among the sheeple, and the goal is to make the sheeple poor, not to make people dead?
SIX: The sheeple are already poor. You're a boomer at the end of your life who still has some of the pie. You just haven't noticed it in your own life that everyone after you is fucked.
People MY age are fucked. That handyman, that homeless sometime gardener, people in my own close family? They got fucked, too. It's not just people "after me" ... like everyone my age has it made ... EVERYONE is getting fucked. That's why there's 70-year-old Walmart greeters. Jeezus, SIX, stop feeling so specially picked on!
Quote:
SIGNY: The only winner so far is The Fed because it has 'lent' many big banks ... including international ones ... an unimaginable amount of money and now has them in thrall. The EU central bank (ECB) so far has not been able to crank up digital money-creation because the nation backstopping such loans ... Germany... won't go along with it.
SIX: No more in their thrall than they already were. Our currency has been monopoly money for longer than I've been alive. This didn't just happen in the last 2 months.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
OK
It still doesn't say what you said I said.
Keep looking.
Because if that's all you've got, yes... You misremember.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
So. Apology then?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:The CURRENT vaccine does a good enough job of protecting the vaccinated, and not such a bang-up job of protecting the unvaccinated.
KIKI: The original vaccines smallpox and polio did a good job keeping people from getting sick and therefore passing on the disease. But tetanus vaccines only stop disease, and do nothing to stop transmission, since transmission is from bacterial spores that are already in the soil. So not all vaccines are designed to stop transmission, but they're useful nonetheless. And we require them, since they reduce disease and death.
The countries that most successfully dealt with COVID-19 were the countries that kept it from getting a significant presence in their populations in the first place. And in the initial phase they did it with universal 'non-pharmacological interventions' - border control, testing-and-quarantining, contact tracing etc. Few got sick, even fewer died, and those countries reopened earliest with their economies and populations intact. They protected the vulnerable by protecting everyone, with universal, nation-wide, population-wide measures. So I'd argue that well-employed, well-followed population-wide measures worked well, at least with COVID-19.
Anyway, I agree that when resources are scarce, it may benefit directing those resources to protect the most vulnerable. With COVID-19 they're those with risk factors like older age, obesity at any age, or smoking at any age. In other instances that population might be the young, like it was in 1917-1918; or there may be other risk factors and vulnerable populations altogether.
The countries that did the best had populations who trusted their government and who thought of the common good.
Anyway,what you post is true, and a signigifcant fraction of the population (the "libertarian" end of the spectrum) have been remarkably stupid - and callous- about how to deal with this pandemic, especially in the pre-vaccine days when they raised such an almighty fuss about wearing masks, as if it was their god-given right to infect other people.
If I wasn't retired and if I hadn't happened to have had some N95s from an earlier project, I would have been hostage to their callousness and stupidity. Forunately - for me- I was able to protect myself and family from their assholeness.
Now that vaccines are widely available, the vast majority of the population is able to protect itself, if it so chooses, from assholes, and the situation has changed.
And you are right that some vaccines only protect the vaccinated, and we insist on them anyway, and somehow these neolithics haven't figured that out and drawn a parallel to the current vaccine.
But the alt blogosphere has raised such an almighty howl of fear about "the jab" that maybe the best thing to do, in this case, is to let the people learn from experience, even if it means that grandpa and gramma and fatty daddy keel over and die.
Unfortunately, this has been waaaaay too politicized. Many people don't trust the government, the media, corporations, and bureaucratic scientists with good reason. After all, Fauci stood up in front of Congress and said "we don't do gain of function research", and he lied, along with all of the other liars.
So the ONE TIME they got it partly right ... well, they've already blown their credibilty to hell years, if not decades, ago. If the collective "they" can conspire a smear campaign against the President for years based on falsehoods; and deny OBVIOUS riots as "mostly peaceful" and promote 1984-style authoritarianism under the guise of being "anti-racist" and (even more hilariously) "anti-fascist" ... well, who's to say what OTHER campaigns they're running?
If people were AT ALL thoughtful they would never have been taken in by any of the other disinformation campaigns, and would have been able to
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So I've been thinking about our problematic response to Covid-19. And the reality is, there were no TECHNICAL reasons why we couldn't have handled it better.
All of our problems are social, and political.
What it would have taken for a coordinated and effective response to the pandemic is a government interested in solving it, and a population that trusted the government, media, and scientists to have our collective interests at heart.
But I think most of us know, in our hearts, that pretty much everyone in any high position of authority/influence is really just wanting to bleed us all dry and then skin us.
Look at "our" response to 911: Instead of hunting down the perpetrators and bringing them to justice thru our criminal courts, we were put in the (brain)wash and spin cycle until most of us didn't know which way was up, and then we were were stampeded in the direction of invading two uninvolved nations; launching a boundary-less, endless, pointless "global war on terror" (GWOT); and stripping us of our civil liberties via the "Patriot" Act.
EVERY SINGLE emergency, big or small (like the global financial crisis of 2008) ... and plenty of made-up ones ... were used as the launch pad for even more depredations against us average Americans.
And I think, honestly, most people feel it. They know they're being repeatedly victimized.
So NO WONDER governments are facing huge resistance, even if the resistance is self-destructive.
I think our government, media, corporations, security-state etc are too corrupt and too far gone to restore faith. It would take a multi-decades-long project of honest government and honest reporting and honest accounting, and TPTB ... well, they're just not interested in that project! All they want to do is stay in power, line their pockets, and mind-fuck the American people.
*****
But here's the thing: If people have reached SUCH a state of aggravation that they're willing to sacrifice their health and maybe even their lives in some sort of quixotic middle finger to TPTB ...
I guess what I don't understand is this: If people TRULY believe that they live in a hostile state, with a hostile government, then why don't they start taking their own intuition seriously and start ACTING ON IT?
You don't survive in a hostile situation by throwing temper tantrums and hissy fits, expecting the "gubmint" ... yanno, the entity that is taking away your individual and collective agency in one giant scoop after another ... to suddenly become the repentant parent, see the error of their ways, and reform. It's not going to happen
You also don't survive by denying reality. I mean, if you're walking thru a minefield you better be pretty careful where you put you feet!
So whether this crisis solves itself ... or not ... or another crisis rears its ugly head ... don't expect our government and social response to be any less dysfunctional. Yes, there are a lot of things that our government/media/security state etc "could" do, and even more urgent things that they "should" do, but none of them are going to get done because none of the politicians standing for election have the honesty and integrity to tell the American people the truth, and even if they did and came close to power, they wouldn't survive.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:For what? I haven't gone back into the other threads to trawl for your posts.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
...instead of wiping out less people in a year than die from automobile accidents
SIGNY:Wrong
SIX: Yes. You are wrong in your assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you even have a ballpark figure in your head as to how many people die of automobile accidents every year? I do. You, apparently, don't. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIX: ... most of whom were close to checking out anyhow.
SIGNY: Wrong.
SIX: Yes. You are also wrong again in this assertion that I'm wrong.
Do you have any idea how many additional years those people would have lived if not for Covid-19? I do. You might want to look that up instead of speaking from your ass.
Quote:
SIGNY: But, good question: why not kill off a bunch of people? Maybe because if you kill off enough people, SOME wealth will concentrate among the sheeple, and the goal is to make the sheeple poor, not to make people dead?
SIX: The sheeple are already poor. You're a boomer at the end of your life who still has some of the pie. You just haven't noticed it in your own life that everyone after you is fucked.
People MY age are fucked. That handyman, that homeless sometime gardener, people in my own close family? They got fucked, too. It's not just people "after me" ... like everyone my age has it made ... EVERYONE is getting fucked. That's why there's 70-year-old Walmart greeters. Jeezus, SIX, stop feeling so specially picked on!
Quote:
SIGNY: The only winner so far is The Fed because it has 'lent' many big banks ... including international ones ... an unimaginable amount of money and now has them in thrall. The EU central bank (ECB) so far has not been able to crank up digital money-creation because the nation backstopping such loans ... Germany... won't go along with it.
SIX: No more in their thrall than they already were. Our currency has been monopoly money for longer than I've been alive. This didn't just happen in the last 2 months.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
OK
It still doesn't say what you said I said.
Keep looking.
Because if that's all you've got, yes... You misremember.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
So. Apology then?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
Because I didn't say what you said I said.
That's how you interpreted it. It seems that you regularly do this when you don't agree with me.
--------------------------------------------------
Vaccinated People: "You need to get muh vaccination shots that don't work because I got muh vaccination shots that don't work and I'm afraid of people that didn't get muh vaccination shots that don't work because muh vaccination shots that don't work don't work."
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