my platform as presidential candidate - what's yours?
POSTED BY: rue
UPDATED: Monday, June 3, 2024 14:50
VIEWED: 27072
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:I agree. For all of the blah-blah-blah that's brought to the board here, there hasn't been one policy that I can say is aimed at "nonwhites". People point to Trump's immigration policies and ASSUME that they're based on racism (hmmm... maybe because the ppl making the accusation are themselves racist?) but I can see other more compelling reasons (nationalism, economics, security) to implement the same policies without involving "racism" whatsoever.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
There has never been a single instance of anything anywhere to back up any claims that Trump hates non-whites.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
And then again, Trump has killed a lot fewer faraway brown people than Obama, or Bush. Obama just got a "pass" because he's a Democrat, and black. (Is that racism, again? Holding people to different standards because of skin color? Just a thought...)
You missed something:
- No, Free Speech
- It can be both, duh. Would anyone seek asylum in the Congo?
- There totally is similarity - she was an anchor citizen.
- How would you FUND that? Real World? Remember?
- The Wall would not be $4 MORE billion, but it’s effect would be trivial. At least citizens would get help with UBI (as absurd as that is as well).
- “Enforcing the law” still takes FUNDING no matter how much you want to ignore that fact - you going to write a check?
- It’s because Trump hates non-whites that he will never $help the "shit hole" countries they come from.
- Good for you! I’d want to learn the language too.
So let me ask you on this last one:
How are you going to FUND enforcing that? How many Language Enforcment Officers will you need? How are you going to determine if someone can speak the language well enough? What are the standards? Who decides? What are you going to do if your enforcement militia determines they can’t speak to your standards? Deport? Remove a pinky? I get the feeling you haven't thought this through very far, just pumping out sound bites.
I guess I'll do what you try to and assume you agree with everything I posted since you didn't respond.
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As for the NYT link?
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.
html
Let's break it down.
1. NYT makes no mistake of labeling this article "OPINION". So much so that it says it twice at the top.
2.
Quote:
Trump’s real-estate company tried to avoid renting apartments to African-Americans in the 1970s and gave preferential treatment to whites, according to the federal government.
Yup. Trump's real-estate company and every single other real-estate company in the 70's.
3.
Quote:
Trump treated black employees at his casinos differently from whites, according to multiple sources. A former hotel executive said Trump criticized a black accountant: “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. … I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks.”
Hearsay. Inadmissible.
4.
Quote:
In 1989, Trump took out ads in New York newspapers urging the death penalty for five black and Latino teenagers accused of raping a white woman in Central Park; he argued they were guilty as late as October 2016, more than 10 years after DNA evidence had exonerated them.
Incidental. Read the ad. Never once does he mention the individuals the NYT article claims he is referencing, nor does he mention any race when talking about criminal behavior. On the contrary, he does say "Many New York families - White, Black, Hispanic and Asian - have had to give up the pleasure of a leisurely stroll in the Park at dusk...". Seems rather inclusive for 1989 if you ask me.
Let's not forget the "proof" article linked to him arguing they were still guilty after DNA exonerated them links to another OPINION piece. One that I can't even read because NYT wants my money to read idiot opinions. I refuse.
5.
Quote:
In 1989, on NBC, Trump said: “I think sometimes a black may think they don’t have an advantage or this and that. I’ve said on one occasion, even about myself, if I were starting off today, I would love to be a well-educated black, because I really believe they do have an actual advantage.”
Truth isn't racism. By 1989 affirmative action was already well underway. Fast forward 30 years and it's never been more true than it is today. You'll note that Trump never said it was a bad thing, mind. Just that it is what he "believes".
6.
Quote:
He began his 2016 presidential campaign with a speech disparaging Mexican immigrants as criminals and “rapists.”
Wildly taken out of context and already widely debunked. Not even worth discussing.
7.
Quote:
He uses the gang MS-13 to disparage all immigrants. Among many other statements, he has suggested that Obama’s protection of the Dreamers — otherwise law-abiding immigrants who were brought to the United States illegally as children — contributed to the spread of MS-13.
This is a thing that happened. There is a cause and effect to everything. The system, as-is, is intentionally broken and nobody seems to want to fix it. You'd never know it from listening to the MSM, but there are quite a few people of Latino descent that want the border situation fixed and also voted for Trump. Once again, nothing here is racist.
8.
Quote:
In December 2015, Trump called for a “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States,” including refusing to readmit Muslim-American citizens who were outside of the country at the time.
I think this was simplified just a tad by trying to fit it into a single sentence. This is what happens when you try to feed Cliff's Notes versions of history to the idiot masses.
9.
Quote:
Trump said a federal judge hearing a case about Trump University was biased because of the judge’s Mexican heritage.
Well... since I can't actually read the article because of the paywall, was it potentially biased because of the judge's Mexican heritage? One would have to assume that those suing him or
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Quote:The NYT labels articles as "opinion" when it happened sometime other than yesterday, since it is not "new" or "news". If you open the NYT link in private window, you don't need worry about their limit of 10 "free" articles per month. Try it:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
And now I'm getting bored and I really have shit to do today. Maybe I'll come back to this later... assuming of course Microsoft doesn't force a restart of windows and the article is still open. Otherwise I won't be able to even read the article without paying the NYT to read their trash rag.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.
html
At a June 2016 campaign rally, Trump pointed to one attendee and said: “Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him.”
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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CC: Didn't miss it, Just too busy to reply, most of which wasn't worth replying to anyway.
Quote:OK, so you can continue to irrationality hate onTrump and I can continue to logically work through the causes and possible solutions of some of our national problems. Good to know!
You missed something:
- No, Free Speech
Quote:Well, if you were in Rwanda during the height of the massacre, the Congo might look like an infinitely safer place. The pickier someone is about their chosen bolthole, the less compelling their claims of politically-motivated violence.
It can be both, duh. Would anyone seek asylum in the Congo?- CC
Quote:They are now naturalized citizens of the USA. If they could become citizens, why are so many parents of "anchor babies" not?
There totally is similarity - she was an anchor citizen.- CC
Quote:Thru the Federal budget, like any other program is funded. Heck, some people are all willing to blow thru a trillion dollars (That's a "thousand billion" for anyone who is counting) without regard for "real world" consequences, I have not yet heard you make a peep about the Federal deficit. But we can imagine, for example, that troop reductions abroad would lead to budgetary savings at home.
How would you FUND that? Real World? Remember?
If you're saying that the Democrats in Congress wouldn't allow such a thing ... well, Republicans won't allow Medicare for all and they're both stupid. It still doens't mean that my proposal doesn't make sense.
Quote:If you think that walls are trivial, why don't you just leave the doors to your house open? Sure, a locked door won't deter a REALLY determined thief, but it WILL deter the vast majority. Other nations don't seem to find the effect of THEIR walls "trivial".
The Wall would not be $4 MORE billion, but it’s effect would be trivial. At least citizens would get help with UBI (as absurd as that is as well).- CC
Quote:Again, you DO know that there's a budget for law enforcement, right? And it's a relatively small one, but - more importantly- it falls under DHS. So why not take the money used to fund all of the illegal data collection acivities that DHS is running (like pulling the plug on the ginormous data center in Utah) and turn it instead to immigration enforcement?
“Enforcing the law” still takes FUNDING no matter how much you want to ignore that fact - you going to write a check? -CC
We're discussing (or, I thought we were discussing) whether or not the policies that I suggest make sense, not whether it's politically impossible because Congresspeople are idiots.
Quote:FIRST, DO NO HARM. If he can refrain from bombing the snot out of other "brown people" nations (like Obama and GWB did) we will be a million people and light-years ahead of where we are now.
- It’s because Trump hates non-whites that he will never $help the "shit hole" countries they come from.
Quote:So, why does someone in this country for 40 years NOT learn the language?
Good for you! I’d want to learn the language too.
Quote:There are several parts to this: There are people who're here illegally. They should be deported, whether or not they speak English. I will take a guess and say that will eliminate most of the non=English-speaking people here.
So let me ask you on this last one:
How are you going to FUND enforcing that? How many Language Enforcement Officers will you need? How are you going to determine if someone can speak the language well enough? What are the standards? Who decides? What are you going to do if your enforcement militia determines they can’t speak to your standards? Deport? Remove a pinky? I get the feeling you haven't thought this through very far, just pumping out sound bites.- CC
There are people here legally on visas (tourist, student, business etc. They have no requirement to speak English, altho many of them do.
And
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SIG4BRAINS: Didn't miss it, Just too busy to reply, most of which wasn't worth replying to anyway.
- I love how you inspire discussion. 
Yanno, most all of your replies below are just flat out pretty damn stupid. I mean, brain dead stupid. And that's what we see from almost all of the pro-Trump supporters on this board. Lies, deflection, idiocy - it's the only way to ignore the obvious is to construct a phony responses. Nothing new!
SIG4BRAINS: OK, so you can continue to irrationality hate onTrump and I can continue to logically work through the causes and possible solutions of some of our national problems. Good to know!
- he's the most powerful single human on the planet, so yes, I will continue to rationally expect more from him and not be satisfied until he's out of office. Pretty stupid - or telling - that you don't find that important as well.
SIG4BRAINS: Well, if you were in Rwanda during the height of the massacre, the Cpngp might look like an infinitely safer place. The pickier someone is about their chosen bolthole, the less compelling their claims of politically-motivated violence.
- Welp, they're in Mexico, not Rwanda. Kinda the point.
SIG4BRAINS: They are now naturalized citizens of the USA. If they could become citizens, why are so many parrents (sic) of "anchor babies" not?
- so like I said, a lot like Melanie - thanks for agreeing. Nice deflection about the parents.
SIG4BRAINS: Thru the Federal budget, like any other program is funded. Heck, you're all willing to blow thru a trillion dollars (That's a "thousand billion" for anyone who is counting without regard for "real world" consequences, I have not yet heard you make a peep about the Federal deficit. But we can imagine, for example, that troop reductions abroad would lead to budgetary savings at home.
If you're saying that the Democrats in Congress wouldn't allow such a thing ... well, Republicans won't allow Medicare for all and they're both stupid. It still doens't mean that my proposal doesn't make sense.
- I made lots of peeps about the federal budget, even ringing the bell once for a federal balanced budget amendment. I guess you were too busy.
SIG4BRAINS: If you think that walls are trivial, why don't you just leave the doors to your house opne? Sure, a locked door won't deter a REALLY determined thief, but it WILL deter the vast majority. Other nations don't seem to find the effect of THEIR walls "trivial".
- like I said, the sh*t you post is pretty stupid. I already posted one linked article about why Donald's wall won't work - in this thread even. Guess you didn't read it. And his motivation isn't even about getting one - it's about using it to foment anger towards brown people from the south - that is also pretty obvious.
SIG4BRAINS: Again, you DO know that there's a budget for law enforcement, right? And it's a relatively samll one, but - more importnatly- it falls under DHS. So why not take the money used to fund all of the illegal data collection acivities that DHS is running (like pulling the plug on the ginormous data center in Utah) and turn it instead to immigration enforcment?
- Ok, sure! Make it so! Pizza every day!
SIG4BRAINS: We're discussing (or, I thought we were discussing) whether or not the policies that I suggest make sense, not whether it's politically impossible because Congresspeople are idiots.
- they don't make sense to me.I thought that was obvious. I live in the real world where just spitballing is a waste of time, especially grating when someone wants to act like they have all the answers. Understanding FUNDING seems to be the real snag for you. Also, just understanding that under our current political system, what can seem logical and obvious solution - even extremely popular with a huge majority of citizens - doesn't mean it will or can happen.
SIG4BRAINS: FIRST, DO NO HARM. If he can refrain from bombing the sn
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Quote:
Didn't miss it, Just too busy to reply, most of which wasn't worth replying to anyway.-SIGNY
- I love how you inspire discussion.
We were doing pretty well DISCUSSING THE ISSUES, and that was unnecessary snark on my part. But besides calling me "stupid" you haven't refuted a single point. So, let's get back to discussing the issues if at all possible.
Quote:
OK, so you can continue to irrationality hate on Trump and I can continue to logically work through the causes and possible solutions of some of our national problems. Good to know!- SIGNY
- he's the most powerful single human on the planet, so yes, I will continue to rationally expect more from him and not be satisfied until he's out of office. Pretty stupid - or telling - that you don't find that important as well.-cc
The focus on Trump as a Putin stooge was fully irrational. The focus on his tax returns, his orange skin, pink hair, etc. is pretty pointless, AS IS THE IDEA OF IMPEACHMENT - which is just plain not gonna happen. And the idea that Trump is a "racist" which is, as far as I know, just that- an idea. There are a lot of POLICY reasons to criticize Trump but so far you haven't hit on many rational ones. That I don't immediately jump onboard with your irrational reactions doesn't mean I find Trump "unimportant". Instead of (wrongly) telling me what I think - and then snarking about your (wrong) assumptions- why don't you just respond to what I've posted? discussion will go a lot more smoothly that way.
Quote:
Well, if you were in Rwanda during the height of the massacre, the Congo might look like an infinitely safer place. The pickier someone is about their chosen bolthole, the less compelling their claims of politically-motivated violence. -SIGNY
-
Welp, they're in Mexico, not Rwanda. Kinda the point.-cc
Yes indeed, they are in Mexico! So, what political violence are they fleeing, exactly? Yes, I know- Mexico, like so many Central American nations- is overwhelmed by its drug cartels. But generalized violence was NOT the reason to create political asylum.
Quote:
They are now naturalized citizens of the USA. If they could become citizens, why are so many parrents (sic) of "anchor babies" not?- SIGNY
- so like I said, a lot like Melanie - thanks for agreeing. Nice deflection about the parents.-cc
I haven't agreed to anything. I still don't understand your point. What WAS your point? It was a response to me getting rid of "birthright citizenship", and you seem to be focusing on chained migration (which I also want to get rid of). Be clear.
Quote:Once?
Thru the Federal budget, like any other program is funded. Heck, you're all willing to blow thru a trillion dollars (That's a "thousand billion" for anyone who is counting without regard for "real world" consequences, I have not yet heard you make a peep about the Federal deficit. But we can imagine, for example, that troop reductions abroad would lead to budgetary savings at home.
If you're saying that the Democrats in Congress wouldn't allow such a thing ... well, Republicans won't allow Medicare for all and they're both stupid. It still doesn't mean that my proposal doesn't make sense.- SIGNY
- I made lots of peeps about the federal budget, even ringing the bell once
Quote:Wow, yeah. Once? More? quotes and links please.
for a federal balanced budget amendment. I guess you were too busy.-cc
Quote:
If you think that walls are trivial, why don't you just leave the doors to your house opne? Sure, aNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:With all your name-calling and lies, I love how you inspire discussion, too! Quite inspirational!
Originally posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
- I love how you inspire discussion.
Quote:fify
Originally posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
- he's the most powerful single human on the planet ... and he's the cause of EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM THE ENTIRE PLANET HAS !!!!! Which is why I REFUSE to discuss issues!
Quote:But they're overwhelmingly *from* NOT MEXICO. At least, according to the news over the past year. So why don't they stay in NOT their country of origin, like Mexico? Yanno, if just getting out is the goal. Why will the US and ONLY the US do?
Originally posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
- Welp, they're in Mexico, not Rwanda. Kinda the point.
Quote:Then I expect LOTS of quotes - and links. Otherwise, it didn't happen.
Originally posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
- I made lots of peeps about the federal budget, even ringing the bell once for a federal balanced budget amendment. I guess you were too busy.
Quote:fify
Originally posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
- like I said, the sh*t you post is pretty stupid ... AND THAT"S HOW I MAKE MY CASE AND *PROMOTE* DISCUSSION. With ad hominem attacks!
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
I already posted one linked article about why Donald's wall won't work - in this thread even. AND THAT'S HOW I MAKE MY CASE AND *PROMOTE* DISCUSSION. ... by misrepresenting articles I post! Like THIS!
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
Guess you didn't read it ... and by snark, like THIS!
BTW *I* did. Read it. The author characterizes the ideas as 'untested', not unworkable. That's what happens when YOU only read the title.
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
And by attributing motivations I can't possibly know! Like THIS!!! And his motivation isn't even about getting one - it's about using it to foment anger towards brown people from the south - that is also pretty obvious.
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
And by posting idiotic snark as if it was meaningful! Look at THIS!- Ok, sure! Make it so! Pizza every day!
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
And by refusing to discuss anything and pretending to have knowledge I *CAN'T ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATE* - like THIS!
I live in the real world where just spitballing is a waste of time, especially grating when someone wants to act like they have all the answers. Understanding FUNDING seems to be the real snag for you. Also, just understanding that under our current political system, what can seem logical and obvious solution - even extremely popular with a huge majority of citizens - doesn't mean it will or can happen.
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
And changing the topic, like THIS!!
- your response has nothing to do with my challenge. Nice deflection.
Quote:fify
posted by CEREAL-MUSH-BRAINZ:
And posting yet MORE snark to avoid discussion - Like THIS!!- so will you provide free English language classes?
And if democrats don't do anything different, how are they any better?
tic tac
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CC - I responded in detail to your post.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:The NYT labels articles as "opinion" when it happened sometime other than yesterday, since it is not "new" or "news".
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
And now I'm getting bored and I really have shit to do today. Maybe I'll come back to this later... assuming of course Microsoft doesn't force a restart of windows and the article is still open. Otherwise I won't be able to even read the article without paying the NYT to read their trash rag.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
I'd LOVE to see where they actually say that is their definition of OPINION. Needless to say, that is not the ACTUAL definition of opinion, and they are purposefully misusing the word if this is how they define it.
Quote:
At a June 2016 campaign rally, Trump pointed to one attendee and said: “Oh, look at my African-American over here. Look at him.”
(Youtube link removed from quote since it messes up the page formatting. Look to Second's original post above.)
This actually gave me a chuckle. I'm surprised I'd never seen this before and that it wasn't played every single night on CNN for 3 months straight.
That wasn't racism. Obviously he meant "his african american supporter" that he was pointing to, but it could easily be taken out of context to sound like he had "ownership" of the person, since he phrased it as a possessive.
It was just a pretty cringe moment, to be sure. The type of stuff that is almost unavoidable for white male politicians in 2019, yanno, being forced to essentially say things like "I have black friends", and then being roasted afterward for saying it, even though they would have been equally roasted for never having said it. It's just a lose/lose world for white males right now. Especially politicians, or anybody with high profile careers.
Quote:
If you open the NYT link in private window, you don't need worry about their limit of 10 "free" articles per month. Try it:
www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/01/15/opinion/leonhardt-trump-racist.
html
This is actually a great tip that EVERYBODY HERE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF. Thanks, Second.
I can't believe that works. My first thought is, how did the NYT overlook this? My second thought is wanting to know what is different in the coding of how private windows are handled as opposed to non-private windows and how this could be exploited elsewhere. Ad blockers today have been neutered because they are being forced to slowly not block ads anymore by more and more sites. I'm looking forward to the day that a new hacker group that doesn't give a shit comes around and brings us a new one that works right. (You can actually set up a raspberry pi box attached to your router that will do a really good job of this, but it's not for the novice and it does come with its own pitfalls).
In any case, I will always at least try this when I'm being blocked by a paywall at one of these papers in the future. NYT is hardly the only website that does it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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I'll try it in my browser and see if it works.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME