A thread for Democrats Only
POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 15:36
VIEWED: 755368
PAGE 62 of 725
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Obama's numbers are much better than Trumps. Add to that that after a year in office, Trump is taking steps that is going to hurt not only our economy, but our allies as well.
Stay tuned...
What numbers?
I don't buy stuff Trump says about this economy, but I'm unaware of any numbers where Obama was better.
Citation needed.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:It took me awhile to find numbers. The Office of Management and Budget presented the numbers in dollars.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Obama's numbers are much better than Trumps. Add to that that after a year in office, Trump is taking steps that is going to hurt not only our economy, but our allies as well.
Stay tuned...
What numbers?
I don't buy stuff Trump says about this economy, but I'm unaware of any numbers where Obama was better.
Citation needed.
The report was released late on a Friday, with Congress out of session. A cynical observer might conclude that the administration wanted the report to go unnoticed.
Why might that be? It shows that the GOP is wrong about regulations as a general matter and wrong about Obama’s regulations specifically. Those regulations had benefits far in excess of their costs.
OMB gathered data and analysis on “major” federal regulations (those with $100 million or more in economic impact) between 2006 and 2016, a period that includes all of Obama’s administration, stopping just short of Trump’s. The final tally, reported in 2001 dollars:
Aggregate benefits: $219 to $695 billion
Aggregate costs: $59 to $88 billion
By even the most conservative estimate, the benefits of Obama’s regulations wildly outweighed the costs.
According to OMB — and to the federal agencies upon whose data OMB mostly relied — the core of the Trumpian case against Obama regulations, arguably the organizing principle of Trump’s administration, is false.
www.eenews.net/assets/2018/02/26/document_pm_01.pdf
Quote:
The Regulatory Right-to-Know Act calls for the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to submit to Congress each year “an accounting statement and associated report” including:
(A) an estimate of the total annual costs and benefits (including quantifiable and nonquantifiable effects) of Federal rules and paperwork, to the extent feasible:
(1) in the aggregate;
(2) by agency and agency program; and
(3) by major rule;
(B) an analysis of impacts of Federal regulation on State, local, and tribal government, small business, wages, and economic growth; and
(C) recommendations for reform.
The estimated annual benefits of major Federal regulations reviewed by OMB from October 1, 2006, to September 30, 2016* for which agencies estimated and monetized both benefits and costs, are in the aggregate between $219 billion and $695 billion, while the estimated annual costs are in the aggregate between $59 billion and $88 billion, reported in 2001 dollars. In 2015 dollars, aggregate annual benefits are estimated to be between $287 and $911 billion and costs between $78 and $115 billion. These ranges reflect uncertainty in the benefits and costs of each rule at the time that it was evaluated.
*We explain later in the Report that OMB chose a ten-year period for aggregation because pre-regulation estimates prepared for rules adopted more than ten years ago are of questionable relevance today.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Why the GOP hates the EPA
New fuel economy standards for medium- and heavy-duty engines had (in 2001 dollars) between $6.7 billion and $9.7 billion in benefits. But they cost industry $0.8 billion to $1.1 billion.
The MATS rule, aimed at reducing toxic emissions from power plants, had between $33 billion and $90 billion in benefits (in 2007 dollars), but it cost industry $9.6 billion.
In short, air quality rules secure enormous health benefits for the American public, but they also ask a great deal of industry.
To frame the same point another way: Air quality regulations serve as a downward redistribution of wealth, out of the pockets of industrialists and into the pockets of ordinary Americans who live closest to pollution sources.
And therein lies the source of industry and GOP rage toward EPA. It’s why EPA delayed and delayed air rules under Bush. It’s why the GOP Congress worked so furiously to block air rules under Obama. And it’s why EPA is weakening or repealing air rules as fast as possible under Trump.
The GOP is opposed to downward redistribution of wealth. If one policy goal has unified the right above all else, it is upward redistribution. Its moneyed interests and policy leaders remain laser-focused on reducing taxes and regulatory burdens on the wealthy. Upward redistribution is what unites GOP health care policy, tax policy, financial sector policy, and environmental policy.
That is why Republicans hate EPA and its rules: They are a burden to industry, but worse, they are a burden that is very obviously worth it.
www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2018/3/6/17077330/trump-regulatory-
agenda-omb
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:It took me awhile to find numbers. The Office of Management and Budget presented the numbers in dollars.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Obama's numbers are much better than Trumps. Add to that that after a year in office, Trump is taking steps that is going to hurt not only our economy, but our allies as well.
Stay tuned...
What numbers?
I don't buy stuff Trump says about this economy, but I'm unaware of any numbers where Obama was better.
Citation needed.
The report was released late on a Friday, with Congress out of session. A cynical observer might conclude that the administration wanted the report to go unnoticed.
Why might that be? It shows that the GOP is wrong about regulations as a general matter and wrong about Obama’s regulations specifically. Those regulations had benefits far in excess of their costs.
OMB gathered data and analysis on “major” federal regulations (those with $100 million or more in economic impact) between 2006 and 2016, a period that includes all of Obama’s administration, stopping just short of Trump’s. The final tally, reported in 2001 dollars:
Aggregate benefits: $219 to $695 billion
Aggregate costs: $59 to $88 billion
By even the most conservative estimate, the benefits of Obama’s regulations wildly outweighed the costs.
According to OMB — and to the federal agencies upon whose data OMB mostly relied — the core of the Trumpian case against Obama regulations, arguably the organizing principle of Trump’s administration, is false.
www.eenews.net/assets/2018/02/26/document_pm_01.pdfQuote:
The Regulatory Right-to-Know Act calls for the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) to submit to Congress each year “an accounting statement and associated report” including:
(A) an estimate of the total annual costs and benefits (including quantifiable and nonquantifiable effects) of Federal rules and paperwork, to the extent feasible:
(1) in the aggregate;
(2) by agency and agency program; and
(3) by major rule;
(B) an analysis of impacts of Federal regulation on State, local, and tribal government, small business, wages, and economic growth; and
(C) recommendations for reform.
The estimated annual benefits of major Federal regulations reviewed by OMB from October 1, 2006, to September 30, 2016* for which agencies estimated and monetized both benefits and costs, are in the aggregate between $219 billion and $695 billion, while the estimated annual costs are in the aggregate between $59 billion and $88 billion, reported in 2001 dollars. In 2015 dollars, aggregate annual benefits are estimated to be between $287 and $911 billion and costs between $78 and $115 billion. These ranges reflect uncertainty in the benefits and costs of each rule at the time that it was evaluated.
*We explain later in the Report that OMB chose a ten-year period for aggregation because pre-regulation estimates prepared for rules adopted more than ten years ago are of questionable relevance today.
They're going to have to break this down into something meaningful. As it stands from what you quoted, these are relatively meaningless numbers.
I was talking more along the lines of the economy and jobs and wages, which are no better in 2018 than they were during the whole of Obama's presidency overall. It's just a different group of people lying to us and telling us that they are is all.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Well, you could click on the link to get all the information that Congress gets from OMB. www.eenews.net/assets/2018/02/26/document_pm_01.pdf
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
They're going to have to break this down into something meaningful. As it stands from what you quoted, these are relatively meaningless numbers.
I was talking more along the lines of the economy and jobs and wages, which are no better in 2018 than they were during the whole of Obama's presidency overall. It's just a different group of people lying to us and telling us that they are is all.
It is all about real benefits in dollars for real people. And the benefits only exist because of Obama's regulators enforced the regulations. Trump's regulators are NOT so good at enforcing regulations. (For just one example: www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/trumps-consumer-agency-announces-
plan-to-let-predatory-lenders-off-the-hook/ ) The regulators and the regulations are something that a President has direct control over. The broader American economy is not really under the President's control, unlike regulations.
(begin-rant) You probably have been told this before, but the President does NOT have direct control over the American economy. He CANNOT create new jobs, build factories, sell houses, etc. Credit for the economy growth or shrinkage is properly given to the several million people (let's call 'em the 1%, but that's not really an accurate description cause it is based on wealth rather than intentions of that group) who pretty much own the bottom 50% of the population. It's too bad that the lower 50% sold control of their lives to the 1%, but tough luck to them. (I could tell you stories about half the people I know throwing away their money and their lives, against my advice, then they say, "But what else could I do?" My answer is a politer variation on "Why the fuck did you do that, against all my advice and your own good sense?") It's the bottom 50% who sold themselves into near slavery, without ever understanding they didn't have to. And the President has no control, other than what is in the regulations, over what the 1% does to the bottom 50%. If the regulations don't exist or the President won't enforce them, the bottom 50% needs to take direct action against their slave-masters in the 1%. I suggest you steal their money than kill 'em, but it's all up to you because Trump won't help you and the Presidency (even when a Democrat is in the White House) isn't powerful enough to fix most of the difficulties created by the 1% to profitably harass and rule over the bottom 50%.(end-of-rant)
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by second:...the bottom 50% needs to take direct action against their slave-masters in the 1%. I suggest you steal their money than kill 'em...
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.7532020.com
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by second:Quote:Well, you could click on the link to get all the information that Congress gets from OMB. www.eenews.net/assets/2018/02/26/document_pm_01.pdf
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
They're going to have to break this down into something meaningful. As it stands from what you quoted, these are relatively meaningless numbers.
I was talking more along the lines of the economy and jobs and wages, which are no better in 2018 than they were during the whole of Obama's presidency overall. It's just a different group of people lying to us and telling us that they are is all.
It is all about real benefits in dollars for real people. And the benefits only exist because of Obama's regulators enforced the regulations. Trump's regulators are NOT so good at enforcing regulations. (For just one example: www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/trumps-consumer-agency-announces-
plan-to-let-predatory-lenders-off-the-hook/ ) The regulators and the regulations are something that a President has direct control over. The broader American economy is not really under the President's control, unlike regulations.
(begin-rant) You probably have been told this before, but the President does NOT have direct control over the American economy. He CANNOT create new jobs, build factories, sell houses, etc. Credit for the economy growth or shrinkage is properly given to the several million people (let's call 'em the 1%, but that's not really an accurate description cause it is based on wealth rather than intentions of that group) who pretty much own the bottom 50% of the population. It's too bad that the lower 50% sold control of their lives to the 1%, but tough luck to them. (I could tell you stories about half the people I know throwing away their money and their lives, against my advice, then they say, "But what else could I do?" My answer is a politer variation on "Why the fuck did you do that, against all my advice and your own good sense?") It's the bottom 50% who sold themselves into near slavery, without ever understanding they didn't have to. And the President has no control, other than what is in the regulations, over what the 1% does to the bottom 50%. If the regulations don't exist or the President won't enforce them, the bottom 50% needs to take direct action against their slave-masters in the 1%. I suggest you steal their money than kill 'em, but it's all up to you because Trump won't help you and the Presidency (even when a Democrat is in the White House) isn't powerful enough to fix most of the difficulties created by the 1% to profitably harass and rule over the bottom 50%.(end-of-rant)
Overall, I do have to say that I appreciate the tone of our messages to each other over the last couple of days. I think it might be because they're not interfeared with by T and G on every thread. When that happens I find that I don't have as much to argue with you about and I actually agree with more than some of it. Not all of it, but a fair enough amount.
Personally, I feel that I've done what I needed to do to unshackle myself from the chains of the 1%'ers. I'll never be rich, but I'm getting by just fine and improving my life on a daily basis now that I'm not a drunk.
I was recently passed over for that promotion I thought I might get. I didn't even get an interview. I said before I didn't think I wanted it anyway though because they wouldn't pay me enough to work full time. I was pretty pissed that I didn't get the interview, but I'm over it now. Especially when I found out who is getting it. He's been with the company for 12 years now, and I really like him. He needs that money a lot more than I do.
I'm alright with part time. Now that they've seen what I can do and they like it, they're doing the more important thing for me to keep me around, and that is scheduling me three s
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
6ix, I have lost the urge to read science fiction because I got old and cranky. Now even my dreams are solidly non-fictional. Everything I do and think about is one solid fact after another stacked up to make a cathedral. Maybe it's not odd that I like the Rick and Morty cartoons. Rick is so bitter and disillusioned at the Universe and he is out there kicking the Universe in the balls, reshaping reality to something he doesn't dislike intensely. He can actually bring down Galactic Empires. Same as Rick, I don't like Galactic Empires: www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php
Quote:
Out near the edge of the Milky Way was a matriarchy bossed by blonde Amazons, and a world of self-styled wizards, and a Pentecostal planet, and a globe where semi-sentient vegetables cultivated themselves in obedience to human masters. All these scattered across many light-years of space but readily accessible by Blieder-drive.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
