Puerto Rico - U.S. Virgin Islands

POSTED BY: SHINYGOODGUY
UPDATED: Saturday, July 25, 2026 15:29
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SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, September 29, 2017 2:18 PM

Bad judgment!? Wow....now that's real deep. So the millions of people that live in California along the San Andreas fault, and that live near forests have "bad judgment" - I'll remember that next time I hear of an earthquake or forest fire in California.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I wasn't saying you can't post about people you know, I was discussing why P.R. is the US's red-headed stepchild. As much as 6ix agreeing with me makes me nauseous, all the people tweeting that Trump doesn't care about P.R. only care because they know someone there.

Laughing at a two hundred mile wide tornado is bad judgment. Living on an island with little resources or ability to escape from in imminent danger is bad judgment.

I seriously hope your friend is ok. But just like the people who live in mobile homes in hurricane prone areas, I'm not sure other people's bad judgment is my responsibility. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to live on an island, but I don't because I couldn't afford to, and I couldn't afford a decent structure and lots of backup supplies. That's just common sense.

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, September 29, 2017 2:20 PM

Yeah, what you said is true.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
And.... Are you showing me your Google-Fu? I could probably type just "Puerto Rico" in the Google search bar and get that paragraph on the first page of hits. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Puerto Ricans are American Citizens and have served in every war since WWI.

Puerto Ricans fought alongside the American colonists in the Revolutionary War, but they were under Spanish rule at the time. They have distinguished themselves in battle throughout their history. They have 4 Medal of Honor recipients. Puerto Ricans have served in the major branches of the Armed Forces.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Yup.

And I don't believe the stat that 50% of people knew what P.R.'s status was anyway. That number is a thinly veiled knock on the half of the country that voted for Trump, obviously.

Now everybody is an "expert" on P.R.'s status, when a few weeks ago nobody knew or gave a shit.

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, September 29, 2017 2:43 PM

That "pretty bad shape" that you mention is a fiscal fiasco of millions of dollars owed to American banks and Wall Street, from the little I understand about the situation before Maria hit. But we're talking about a natural disaster, people possibly dying, which includes the elderly and newborns that can't fend for themselves. Hospitals have generators but they need gas to run them. The basic necessities are needed - food, water, shelter. Nothing more than that.

And, despite Wish's rather interesting comment regarding "bad judgment," I do not think along those lines. For some reason, the United States government chose Puerto Rico to be, first a territory, then a Commonwealth. That "island in the middle of the ocean," as the Dumpster so aptly put it, is significant enough for the U.S.A. to give it consideration, that I hesitate to think....why? Anywho, here we are. The U.S. is stupid enough to give this little island in the middle of the ocean Commonwealth status (and once considered making it a state). Oh and despite what Six thinks, they were given a choice and voted to become a state. What has happened to that is anybody's guess.

So, like it or not....Puerto Ricans are American citizens. They pay taxes and serve in the military. Let's see the Donald say that.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

As I continue to follow the story in Puerto Rico, I find a lot of very
discouraging headlines, such as these two:

In Puerto Rico, Containers Full Of Goods Sit Undistributed At Ports
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/09/28/554297787/puerto-ric
o-relief-goods-sit-undistributed-at-ports

Puerto Rico, short on fuel, cannot deliver food and medicine to the victims of Hurricane Maria
•4,500 containers/trucks filled with supplies are stuck at the Port of San Juan.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/28/puerto-ricos-fuel-supply-breaks-down-i
n-the-wake-of-marias-devastation.html

There must be an amazing degree of incompetence there for the situation to be this way.
Is it the leaders' fault, the foremen, the workers?
The people are in desperate need of supplies; the supplies have arrived, now it's
intermission - time out?, "Sorry folks, nothing can be done"?

It doesn't compute.

But apparently, PR was in pretty bad shape before the Storm.

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, September 29, 2017 3:09 PM

Six, let me fill you in:

The roads are strewn with debris, power lines, knocked down trees and pieces of houses, concrete and otherwise. Roofs literally blown off. Local bridges that connect small towns to main roads are partially or completely destroyed, making delivery of goods and services nearly impossible.

I saw a video of a man who was reunited with his sister after nearly a week of not knowing whether or not she was alive. A grandmother is rationing water and crackers to her grandchildren (that water was obtained through an ingenious PVC pipe configuration capturing local river water by a local mechanic from the town). There is gas in the gas stations, but, due to power grid failure, is hard to come by.
People line up for hours to get a couple of gallons per person to run generators and for the cars not ruined by the flood. There's so many horror stories about survival coming out of there.

Puerto Rico as a whole, accepted evacuees from the Virgin Islands devastated by Irma. Neighbors are helping neighbors (a Puerto Rican trait). Jennifr Lopez donated a million dollars, as did Alex Rodriguez (who isn't Puerto Rican), so did Pitbull, a local rapper named Daddy Yankee, actress Rosie Perez (who has family there), latin singer Marc Anthony as well. It was announced that Jay-Z and others are going to organize a concert to raise money for relief.

I saw a video on Facebook where a truck driver was desperately trying to reach there to volunteer to drive the trucks filled with food, medicine and water left on the docks. But he and the doctor that was traveling with him have been denied passage to PR. The people there are in need of truck drivers and medical people - doctors, nurses and paramedics. Who the fuck is running things over there? Last I heard the Army has been deployed. Finally some action.

These folks are survivors though, and I believe they'll be okay. They will live off the land until time comes that they can live somewhat as they did before Maria.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
That does sound terrible. I can't imagine what the people there are going through.

I've heard stories from people who have helped out in similar situations in the past that go the same way. It's just a terrible situation. I don't think there's anybody there that's lording over all the fuel for themselves and are to blame for things not going to help people who need it. Did anybody bother sending an oil tanker or two along with all of those supplies? The infrastructure is gone. I'm sure even if there was fuel it will take a long time to get the goods to people because of the devastation that must be littering what used to be streets. You could probably travel half a mile and then have to stop for half a day to clear out the next stretch of road. Add to all of this that they're surrounded by ocean. It's not as if they can send a bunch of bobcats in to clear up the debris. Most of that work I'm sure is being done by hand.

SHINYGOODGUY

Friday, September 29, 2017 3:19 PM

Listen, I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but I personally know (or knew) 5 Puerto Rican men who served in the military:

2 older men who served in Korea. 2 who served in Vietnam and one who served in Iraq.
Oh and a woman who also served in Iraq (she now has a son who joined the Marines).

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
And.... Are you showing me your Google-Fu? I could probably type just "Puerto Rico" in the Google search bar and get that paragraph on the first page of hits. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true.

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Puerto Ricans are American Citizens and have served in every war since WWI.

Puerto Ricans fought alongside the American colonists in the Revolutionary War, but they were under Spanish rule at the time. They have distinguished themselves in battle throughout their history. They have 4 Medal of Honor recipients. Puerto Ricans have served in the major branches of the Armed Forces.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
Yup.

And I don't believe the stat that 50% of people knew what P.R.'s status was anyway. That number is a thinly veiled knock on the half of the country that voted for Trump, obviously.

Now everybody is an "expert" on P.R.'s status, when a few weeks ago nobody knew or gave a shit.

6STRINGJOKER

Friday, September 29, 2017 4:24 PM

Puerto Ricans are human beings, just like the rest of us. I don't buy into any talk about how they have "noble traits" or any such nonsense. There's just as many shitty Puerto Ricans as there are any other race, and stories of rich celebrities donating cash isn't going to change that.

You're not "filling me in" about anything. I already know what is going on down there, and I already said what you just said to me. It's a terrible, terrible clusterfuck on that island right now. A real life nightmare. I feel sorry for them.

I feel sorry for any people you personally know and care about that are going through it. It sucks. I'm just sick of people exploiting every event under the sun for political agendas. At least 90% of Americans had no idea what Puerto Rico's status was before this event happened. I'm willing to be that even now more then 60% of them couldn't even point out PR on a map if you took their smartphone away from them.

OONJERAH

Saturday, September 30, 2017 7:31 AM

Google: 195 countries

"There are 195 countries in the world today. This total comprises 193 countries
that are member states of the United Nations and 2 countries that are non-member
observer states: the Holy See and the State of Palestine."

Pretty sure I never heard of half of them.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

6STRINGJOKER

Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Google: 195 countries

"There are 195 countries in the world today. This total comprises 193 countries
that are member states of the United Nations and 2 countries that are non-member
observer states: the Holy See and the State of Palestine."

Pretty sure I never heard of half of them.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Thank you for illustrating the point, Oonj. :)

Holy See, Holy Do???

I never even knew that's what the Pope Palace was called until today. Never knew that only two entities were not part of the U.N. as well.

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 30, 2017 9:46 PM

WHat this tells me (along with Katrina) is that, for a disaster of truly monstrous proportions .... you're on your own, for at least two weeks, maybe three. The idea of preparing for 72 hours is hogwash. It's going to be you and your neighbors, digging out, for the foreseeable future.

The only entity large enough, and with the equipment and skill set big enough, to handle emergencies which involve millions of people is the National Guard and the Corps of Engineers.

A TRULY proactive stance, for PR, or New Orleans, or LA (buried under earthquake rubble) would look like this ....

Two days before the hurricane strikes

We will need to assess the island's needs in absence of reliable communication, we need ___________ transport helicopters and crew to overfly the island multiple times, identifying remote or inaccessible areas and estimate damage. If possible, land the aircraft and speak with the people to ID their critical needs.

There will be up to 3 million people at risk. Everyone will need ten gallons of fresh water for a week. Start by gathering up the first 30 million gallons, stage our water purification units plus all ancillary necessary fuel to be transported to nearest unaffected staging area by the end of the first two days.

Hospitals and other critical services will need generators and fuel. Estimate the number and size of generators. Transport to the staging area. We will helicopter in the supplies and staff if necessary into the affected area from there.

There are _________ planned recipients of water, generators fuel and staff. This will require ________ transport helicopters with a radius of ________ miles which can make _________flights a day. All identified areas of need to be supplies in the first three days.

Roads will be impassible. We will need bulldozers, earthmoving equipment, Corps engineers to build bridges. We will develop staging areas across the island (city) where equipment and fuel and crew can be landed; they will work outward towards the nearest accessible main road."

Anyway, you get the idea. The response doesn't HAVE to be slow-moving, ponderous, and reactive. It COULD be made effective- ready and beginning work, on site in 48 hours, instead of this drip-drip-drip of niggardly, reluctant help.

But seeing as how the Federal government can't seem to do anything but bomb people, if you live in a hazard-prone area, and it's a hazard that could affect over 100,000 people, better be prepared to tough it out for two weeks or more on your own.

-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake

THGRRI

Saturday, September 30, 2017 10:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Google: 195 countries

"There are 195 countries in the world today. This total comprises 193 countries
that are member states of the United Nations and 2 countries that are non-member
observer states: the Holy See and the State of Palestine."

Pretty sure I never heard of half of them.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

And Trump is at war with all of them. All but Russia that is.