Real World Event Discussions

Bernie Sanders Discussion Thread

POSTED BY: reaverfan
UPDATED: Monday, July 27, 2026 16:39
VIEWED: 44545
PAGE 9 of 30

KPO

Friday, April 8, 2016 6:28 PM

Paul Krugman: "Sanders Over the Edge" - http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/08/opinion/sanders-over-the-edge.html?s
mid=tw-share&_r=0

Quote:
From the beginning, many and probably most liberal policy wonks were skeptical about Bernie Sanders. On many major issues — including the signature issues of his campaign, especially financial reform — he seemed to go for easy slogans over hard thinking. And his political theory of change, his waving away of limits, seemed utterly unrealistic.

Some Sanders supporters responded angrily when these concerns were raised, immediately accusing anyone expressing doubts about their hero of being corrupt if not actually criminal. But intolerance and cultishness from some of a candidate’s supporters are one thing; what about the candidate himself?

Unfortunately, in the past few days the answer has become all too clear: Mr. Sanders is starting to sound like his worst followers. Bernie is becoming a Bernie Bro.

Let me illustrate the point about issues by talking about bank reform.

The easy slogan here is “Break up the big banks.” It’s obvious why this slogan is appealing from a political point of view: Wall Street supplies an excellent cast of villains. But were big banks really at the heart of the financial crisis, and would breaking them up protect us from future crises?

Many analysts concluded years ago that the answers to both questions were no. Predatory lending was largely carried out by smaller, non-Wall Street institutions like Countrywide Financial; the crisis itself was centered not on big banks but on “shadow banks” like Lehman Brothers that weren’t necessarily that big. And the financial reform that President Obama signed in 2010 made a real effort to address these problems. It could and should be made stronger, but pounding the table about big banks misses the point.

Yet going on about big banks is pretty much all Mr. Sanders has done. On the rare occasions on which he was asked for more detail, he didn’t seem to have anything more to offer. And this absence of substance beyond the slogans seems to be true of his positions across the board.

You could argue that policy details are unimportant as long as a politician has the right values and character. As it happens, I don’t agree. For one thing, a politician’s policy specifics are often a very important clue to his or her true character — I warned about George W. Bush’s mendacity back when most journalists were still portraying him as a bluff, honest fellow, because I actually looked at his tax proposals. For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.

...

SECOND

Saturday, April 9, 2016 12:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.

Somebody clued Bernie to the fact that his mouth was running faster than his brain, so he took back his Hillary is NOT qualified to be President. Everybody breathed a sigh of relief.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

SIGNYM

Saturday, April 9, 2016 6:49 PM

You guys still don't "get it", do you?

IF you're a modern politician, and you whittle your course of action to "the possible", using all the "realistic" models, what you wind up with is exactly what we have today: politicians who are afraid to offend their sources of money, and a series of "I can't do this because of..." statements, until you wind up with the same-old.

So, speaking of "hard choices". Our choices are only HARD because we're constrained by those with money to "choose" courses of action which don't seriously discomfit them. Those who speak of "hard choices" in the USA are those who think ...

"Do we address global climate change, or pander to TPTB in fossil fuels, or try to find a course that's 'tolerable' to them?"

"Do we address our crumbling infrastructure, or do we pander to the banksters who're always seeking the highest ROI, or do we try to find a course that doesn't offend the financialists and still manage to get at least a little something necessary done?"

Do we cost-effectively cover everyone with health insurance, or do we allow SOME of the health care industry [pharma] to rake in unconscionable profits?

Do we decline to destroy yet another nation - leaving a failed state in its wake, or do we go along with State Department/ CIA plans to use drug money and weapons smuggling to destabilize one more time?"

Both Bernie and Trump are protest votes. And if you don't think the system as it currently stands demands a protest vote, then by all means stick with TPTB.

Are we heading in the right direction? If not, then isn't choosing a different direction to right thing to do?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

REAVERFAN

Saturday, April 9, 2016 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Those same things were said about Slick Willy, the First Black President - and also Obama, the Second Black President.
Yes, but

libtards
Quote:

are all saying Trump is.

And the real world seems to put him in 3rd place.

But isn't this the Bernie thread?

I see. You're demonstrating the cognitive thing that was mentioned on that other thread about people being gullible.

1KIKI

Sunday, April 10, 2016 3:55 AM

Jeeze Second - could your post have been any more dishonest?

Daily News: We are very well aware of the broad themes of your campaign by now. So we'd like to hone in on some of the more particular issues to get a sense of how your presidency might evolve.

You’ve said that the greed of Wall Street and corporate America is destroying the fabric of our nation. So if we can get particular: For example, in corporate America, Apple happens to be celebrating, today, its 40th birthday. It's a company that grew from nothing to 115,000 permanent employees. And I'm wondering, is Apple destroying the fabric of America?

Bernie Sanders: No, Apple is not destroying the fabric of America. But I do wish they'd be manufacturing some of their devices, here, in the United States rather than in China. And I do wish that they would not be trying to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

Daily News: Okay. Well, would you name, say, three American corporate giants that are destroying the national fabric?

Sanders: JPMorgan Chase, and virtually every other major bank in this country. Let me be very clear, all right? I believe that we can and should move to what Pope Francis calls a moral economy.

Right now, there are still millions of people in this country who are suffering the results of the greed, recklessness and illegal behavior on Wall Street. And when you have companies like Goldman Sachs and many other major banks reaching settlements with the United States government, as you're aware, for many billions of dollars, this is an implicit admission that they have engaged in illegal activity.

Daily News: I understand that. I wanted to draw a distinction, though. Because in your speech you mention the financial industry and you focused on corporate America, the greed of Wall Street and corporate America. So I wanted to get a sense of corporate America, as the agent of American destruction.

Sanders: General Electric, good example. General Electric was created in this country by American workers and American consumers. What we have seen over the many years is shutting down of many major plants in this country. Sending jobs to low-wage countries. And General Electric, doing a very good job avoiding the taxes. In fact, in a given year, they pay nothing in taxes. That's greed.

That is greed and that’s selfishness. That is lack of respect for the people of this country.

Daily News: And so how does that destroy the fabric of America?

Sanders: I'll tell you how it does. If you are a corporation and the only damn thing you are concerned about is your profits. Let's just give an example of a corporation that's making money in America, today, but desiring to move to China or to Mexico to make even more money. That is destroying the moral fabric of this country. That is saying that I don't care that the workers, here have worked for decades. It doesn't matter to me. The only thing that matters is that I can make a little bit more money. That the dollar is all that is almighty. And I think that is the moral fabric.

To me, what moral is, I've got to be concerned about you. You've got to be concerned about my wife. That's moral to me. That's what I believe in. And if the only thing that matters to you is making an extra buck, you don't care about my family, I think that's immoral. And I think what corporate America has shown us in the last number of years, what Wall Street has shown us, the only thing that matters is their profits and their money. And the hell with the rest of the people of this country.

Daily News: Okay. Do you weigh in the balance at all, the fact that a company that's moving jobs overseas, that the competitive climate may be such that they feel that they must, to compete in the United States?

Sanders: No. I think, firstly, we have to appreciate these guys wrote the rules in the first place. So they wrote the trade agreements. And then, yes, I do understand you can make more profits by paying people in Mexico, or China

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, April 10, 2016 6:10 AM

Even coin tosses are rigged!? Damn! it's like that with you guys. I really do hope Bernie or the Donald win, then we gonna see some real kick ass government.

How many days in office before Bernie actually changes Washington, DC?
Can anyone give me the scoop? How long before we see Wall Street fall to it's
knees and beg for mercy? And the banks, when will we see the CEOs line up to
pay tribute to his Bernieness? The magical and wonderful professor Sanders
waving his Wand of Socialist Republic of America to transform the country to
the land of milk and honey.

Or will it be the New Wave of the 4th Reich as the Donald deliver the US into
the den of goosestepping SS troops.

Ah, the American way!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:
Maybe Bernie taking Nevada will make up a little bit for Hillary magically winning all six coin tosses in Iowa.

Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

SHINYGOODGUY

Sunday, April 10, 2016 6:23 AM

True, someone must have figured out that he will need Hilary's votes to win the
general election...........soooooo, the walk-back. Denigrating Hilary also
succeeds in insulting her supporters, NOT SMART. The issues are many and
a president needs to address them all in the course of running the country.

Is he ready? Well, that answer will only come when he wins and is faced with
the reality. It's time to put up or shut up!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:

For another, I consider a commitment to facing hard choices as opposed to taking the easy way out an important value in itself.

But in any case, the way Mr. Sanders is now campaigning raises serious character and values issues.
Somebody clued Bernie to the fact that his mouth was running faster than his brain, so he took back his Hillary is NOT qualified to be President. Everybody breathed a sigh of relief.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Sunday, April 10, 2016 11:55 AM

God forbid Bernie should tell the truth. So here it is in very brief terms.

New York is full of Zionist Jews who think Israel is justified no matter what it does (oh look, Israel is a baby-USA), and it's the home of Wall Street and 2 bigee bank bankstas (rhymes with gangstas).

Those are exactly the people Hillary's been sucking up to. I guess that's what you have to do to win the state.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

SECOND

Sunday, April 10, 2016 6:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

New York is full of Zionist Jews who think Israel is justified no matter what it does (oh look, Israel is a baby-USA), and it's the home of Wall Street and 2 bigee bank bankstas (rhymes with gangstas).

Those are exactly the people Hillary's been sucking up to. I guess that's what you have to do to win the state.

As an election strategy, that only works for Clinton if the Zionist plus Banker plus Stockbroker population is more than 10 million out of the 20 million New York State citizens. The Jewish population numbers 6.4 million U.S. adults and children out of 323 million. About 13% of all Jews in the U.S. live in New York City.

1kiki, why not just call Clinton a Zionist-stockbroker-banker rigidly committed to her native people? Make your insults more forceful. This is the internet and you can say anything to make a point. Nothing you write has to be true. There is no enforcement of any standards.

I think Clinton is really only a bleached white-bread politician who is speaking her mind and seeking a few Zionist, banker, stockbroker (ZBS) votes. But Clinton knows if she overdoes the ZBS side of her sympathies, she will lose everyone else. I think she can change her mind about the ZBS, when they cause too much trouble for her, since she was not born one of them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

1KIKI

Monday, April 11, 2016 12:31 AM

I thought you didn't believe in the power of the citizen vote to influence the government, Second. Now here you're telling me that the powerful AIPAC lobby, the powerful Wall Street lobby, the powerful bank lobby and the 1.75 millions Jews in New York State (a single-identity bloc roughly 9% of the population) - and their media handmaidens - have no influence over Hillary's coffers, her media image, or her reach. Because voters are so independent and powerful.

Which is it?