What are our national goals? What about the international rules of the road? And who are "we", anyway?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, August 31, 2026 20:17
VIEWED: 6222
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JAYNEZTOWN

Tuesday, June 30, 2026 3:57 PM

Americans' pride in US history and democracy drops, and fewer are proud to be American, polls find

https://apnews.com/article/poll-america-identity-pride-proud-3f333d6db
84c73ca7e78882b0a2a2070

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, July 1, 2026 6:59 PM

Gee. I wonder why when it's non-stop 24/7/365 anti-American propaganda everywhere you look.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

JAYNEZTOWN

Thursday, August 27, 2026 1:08 PM

opens with a funny Corporate nonsense joke on North Pole City Locations

Un-American and yet, totally American

Company Towns

SECOND

Thursday, August 27, 2026 7:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Gee. I wonder why when it's non-stop 24/7/365 anti-American propaganda everywhere you look.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

For 87 years, slave-owners complained about the anti-American propaganda spread by slavery abolitionists. Funny how good people, such as the abolitionists, believe that evil people will change their minds if only given more time for anti-slavery propaganda to work its magic. But slavery continued on and on because it was an American institution. And then the slave-owners decided to kill Lincoln.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Plot

That plot finally got Lincoln's attention, but he NEVER understood that the people who claimed abolition was anti-American were irredeemable evil. Lincoln believed there was goodness in the slave-owners: "We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory... will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature."

Not understanding who he was dealing with is why Lincoln was killed by absolutely morally diseased people five days after Lee's Surrender: April 9, 1865 (at Appomattox Court House)
Lincoln Shot: April 14, 1865 (at Ford's Theatre)

Evil people are inevitably certain that they are good, while also certain that the enemies of evil are the true evil. Lincoln's killer wrote:

I have ever held the South was right. The very nomination of Abraham Lincoln, four years ago, spoke plainly war upon Southern rights and institutions. ...And looking upon African Slavery from the same stand-point held by the noble framers of our constitution, I for one, have ever considered it one of the greatest blessings (both for themselves and us,) that God has ever bestowed upon a favored nation. ...I have also studied hard to discover upon what grounds the right of a State to secede has been denied, when our very name, United States, and the Declaration of Independence, both provide for secession.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilkes_Booth#Death

I hope that Libtards someday know, unlike Lincoln, that Trumptards are unmovable by the better angels of our nature.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SECOND

Thursday, August 27, 2026 11:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Gee. I wonder why when it's non-stop 24/7/365 anti-American propaganda everywhere you look.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

There are two movies called The Odyssey [2026].

The Odyssey [2026] for Trumptards was made in West Virginia with a white Helen of Troy.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt41605854/
Free Bittorrent at https://uindex.org/details.php?id=174629895

The Odyssey [2026] for real Americans, not for Trumptards
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33764258/
Free Bittorrent at https://uindex.org/details.php?id=142678184

It only requires about one minute with each of these movies to know that one is a very poor quality version of Homer's story.

It requires even less time with an "American" talking about Trump to recognize who is a Trumptard and who is a real American.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

6IXSTRINGJACK

Friday, August 28, 2026 12:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Gee. I wonder why when it's non-stop 24/7/365 anti-American propaganda everywhere you look.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.
For 87 years, slave-owners complained about the anti-American propaganda spread by slavery abolitionists.

Shut the fuck up you worthless cunt.

You are nowhere near as witty as you imagine yourself to be.

You are nothing but a basic bitch.

When you're not stealing other people's opinions outright, you're just parroting them mindlessly.

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Those who dance always seem crazy to those who can't hear the music.

SIGNYM

Friday, August 28, 2026 1:29 AM

The questions still remain.

Now, more than ever.

And SECOND and THGR seem incapable of rational thought.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
One of the interesting things about the recent necroposting (which I really enjoy BTW - thanks Jayneztown!) is the long-term perspective that it offers on the discussions here. While the actual topic have changed - or not! in some cases, as old topics become relevant again - the underlying discussion has obdurately remained.

The actual topic, of course - the one that's been rolling from thread to thread and decade to decade - is, what SHOULD we, as a nation, be doing? What CAN we do? Who is "we", anyway? How do we fit in with everyone else?

Here are some examples of how this underlying argument works:

SGG (sorry SGG, I know you're pissed off at me because I don't like Obama but this is a clear example) believes that the USA should be welcoming to immigrants, no matter how they cross our borders. He believes that because he believes it's the American ideal: "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." That this ideal is what "makes America great" ... different than other nations ... and that there's no potential conflict between that American ideal and American future prospects or internal stability, it will always somehow work out in the end because it always has in the past, in some fashion. SGG's view of America and "Americans" is that our responsibility extends, not just to our current citizens but to EVERYBODY, that inclusiveness is the path to greatness (prosperity? security?) Clearly, SGG's definition of America and its responsibilities extends to more than just those living here. So, who or what is "America"?

In terms of foreign policy, there are the perennial arguments about American military intervention. Can you actually reach objectives like "freedom" and "democracy" via the military? Should we even be trying to extend "our way of life" to other nations, especially at the point of a gun? And are those the real objectives of our leadership, or just the hooks used to get the populace to "buy into" a military intervention? If our leadership HAS other goals, what are they?

How do we reach prosperity? With more, less, or a different government? Should prosperity be a goal in the fist place?

One of the reasons why this comes up as a question is that there seems to be a profound disunity between Americans. Not only do people not seem to be agreeing on HOW to achieve certain goals, we seem not to be agreeing on the goals themselves, and we even disagree on whether agreement is even necessary.

In fact, scanning across various (American) websites, it's as if we live in five or six very different worlds!

MANY years ago, when my employer actually believed in training, they had a short training course in ethics. Best as I recall, there were three different systems:

Canonical- the kinds that refers to the Bible, the Q'uran, or some other list of rules

Synthetic (or syncretic) - the kind that attempts to understand the underlying areas of agreement between different systems, and synthesize them into one system

??? - I forget the name of the third, but I remember it as "Whatever floats your boat" .... I won't look into YOUR system of morals if you won't look over the back fence at mine. Even then, more than half of the USA believed in the "Whatever floats your boat" system of ethics. More people than not believed that you DON'T need a common set of ethics to have a "successful" nation.

So should we even attempt to outline "our" underlying beliefs? Do we (as a nation) need some underlying, commonly-held morals anyway? Or can we just roll along without them?

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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

SECOND

Friday, August 28, 2026 4:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The questions still remain.

Now, more than ever.

And SECOND and THGR seem incapable of rational thought.

Pick a goal for America: universal healthcare. The United States cannot have that because the American population is split into three groups. Two of the groups deserve their silly names: Libtards and Trumptards because neither can agree on what is evil. For example, a Libtard is sure everyone should have health insurance, while Trumptards are sure that would be evil since such a system takes money from Trumptards for somebody else's insurance.

In the Civil War, one side was pro-slavery, and the other was anti-slavery. Which side you were on depended on whether you wanted to pay for work done or whether you felt paying was evil and objectionable. There would be no agreement on which side was evil. The winner was the side with more ammo, food, soldiers, and, crucially, better leadership.

Then there was the third side in the Civil War, those people who were unsure about where they stood on slavery, since they didn't like blacks but didn't like the brutality of the slave-owners, but did like the idea of getting labor done for free or maybe at minimum wage. Call that side the I-Don't-Wanna-Know-And-Leave-Me-Alone.

In the 21st Century, the Leave-Me-Alones are avoiding deciding what is and is not evil. They just want to be Homer Simpson - fat, lazy, drunk, and stupid. They want universal healthcare, but they don't want to pay for somebody else's. They don't wanna know and don't wanna think about it, beyond preferring to not pay more. And so the United States ended up paying more than any other country for healthcare per person but does NOT have healthcare for everyone. It is exactly what happens when most people don't wanna think.

U.S. healthcare spending per capita is twice the average of other wealthy countries

https://www.pgpf.org/article/how-does-the-us-healthcare-system-compare
-to-other-countries/

A quick reminder of the stark contrast between Libtards and Trumptards:

Last night, Darline Graham (a Trumptard) used her primary victory speech to call universal healthcare a "bad idea."
Her reasoning: "My parents worked long, hard hours to make ends meet... If they were sick, they had to get up and go to work. My mother passed away when I was 11, and my father just over a year later."
Call me crazy (wrote the Libtard who commented on Graham) but aren't politicians supposed to want more for the next generation? Not repeat the failed policies of the past?
Healthcare is a human right. (See how different Libtards see the world compared to Trumptards?)
https://imgur.com/gallery/human-right-9I0dJXx

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

SIGNYM

Friday, August 28, 2026 3:33 PM

Silly man.

"Evil" is not a goal.

Neither is "good".

As long as you keep framing it in those terms you'll never get anywhere.

-----------

"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal."- Henry Kissinger

SECOND

Friday, August 28, 2026 5:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Silly man.

"Evil" is not a goal.

Neither is "good".

As long as you keep framing it in those terms you'll never get anywhere.

I am going to repeat myself. There are two versions of The Odyssey movie available in the summer of 2026. Both have the same name, but the Internet Movie Database can tell them apart. Both are based on Homer's Odyssey. One of those versions is "evil", although its producers are trying to convince people to accept it as the "good" version of Homer's story. Likewise, there are Americans who are "evil" who try to pass as "good". The classic example would be American slave-owners, both the ones who lived in the Confederacy and the ones living in the border states who did not join the rebellion. The slave-owners were "evil" and should have been handled like you would a defective part, such as a cheap drinking glass that has a crack in it. The glass may hold water, but throw it in the recycling and never use it again. Same with slave-owners. But even to this very day, it is unclear to most Americans that the slave-owners were "evil", not just that the practice of slavery was "evil". If a nation is full of people who are deeply, absurdly confused about the difference between "good" and "evil," then that nation won't be able to set national goals. It will be left to individuals to form groups, corporations, and political parties to achieve goals, since the nation's legislature will be too mentally befuddled to do it.

I'm convinced that Signym and 6ixStringJoker can understand nothing about what I wrote because those two cannot even understand that the Russians are the evil side in the war with Ukraine. But then slave-owners could not understand that despite slavery being very profitable for themselves, they should not have slaves. And most business owners of today can not understand that paying the employees the smallest amount the employee will accept is profitable, but it is also evil.

----

There are two movies called The Odyssey [2026].

The Odyssey [2026] for Trumptards was made in West Virginia with a white Helen of Troy.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt41605854/
Free Bittorrent at https://uindex.org/details.php?id=174629895

The Odyssey [2026] for real Americans, not for Trumptards
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt33764258/
Free Bittorrent at https://uindex.org/details.php?id=142678184

It only requires about one minute with each of these movies to know that one is a very poor quality version of Homer's story.

It requires even less time with an "American" talking about Trump to recognize who is a Trumptard and who is a real American.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

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