The Demonization of the Opposition
POSTED BY: SoupCatcher
UPDATED: Sunday, August 1, 2004 20:50
VIEWED: 35776
PAGE 20 of 20
SPLibertarian:
Thank you for that clarification. I have only lately come to an interest in the Bill of Rights and I appreciate any and all help in my ongoing quest for understanding. So I'm guessing that article 9 and probably article 10 were a response to that debate that you mentioned? On a side note: I have come to realize that my high school education was very incomplete.
Signym:
Interesting link. I'm not sure if I would draw the conclusion that you did because it's very difficult for me to tell anything about the validity of the study based on the write-up. In the past I've been very disappointed in how the press presents original research so I'm usually pretty leery. Since Psychology is not my discipline, I'll withhold judgement until I see these studies presented in a peer-reviewed journal.
On the other hand, this passes my "intuitive test" in that the results aren't surprising. In my opinion, whether or not the studies have shown the relationships they claim is not important. What is important is that it appears this administration believes they must maintain a state of fear to stay in power.
Rue:
John B. Judis, Spencer Ackerman & Massoud Ansari writing for The New Republic originally broke this story a few weeks ago. Here's a link to the article (they've since added an intro about the capture):
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040719&s=aaj071904
My feelings on this are mixed. I'm very glad that another Al Qaeda operative has been captured. Hopefully we can get him into our custody and try him for the embassy bombings. On the other hand, I'm irritated with both Pakistan and the Bush administration. Why didn't we apply this pressure back in 2001, 2002, or 2003? And why did it take the pressure and the incentives for Pakistan to act?
When I first read The New Republic article a few weeks ago I dismissed it as being almost conspiracy theorish. But then we have the capture. And come to find out they have had him since Sunday. And the capture is announced at midnight local Pakistan time (which just happens to be close to prime time on the east coast). Coincidental?
Kevin Drum over at the Washington Monthly was one of the bloggers tracking this. He has a nice couple of links and some thoughts on the delay between the capture and the announcement:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_07/004416.ph
p
I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!
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Soupcatcher - do you spend a LOT of time researching and keeping up with the news?
I ran across the item a while ago, sent it on to a few people but didn't bookmark or save it. So when the new announcement was made I had to go with what I could scrape up on a quick search.
Thanks for the link. We seem to access different sources.
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USA Today had the good sense to spike it, but speaking of demonization:
Quote:
Put The Speakers In A Cage (Ann Coulter's Spiked Article)
USA Today Put The Speakers In A Cage July 26, 2004
Here at the Spawn of Satan convention in Boston, conservatives are deploying a series of covert signals to identify one another, much like gay men do.
This is literally demonization.
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It is true that people will almost always choose security over other concerns. This is well documented.
Fact: almost 3000 people were killed on 9-11 by a terrorist attack against the US
Fact: The terrorists who instigated that attack have been involved in attacking the US for the at least the last 10 years. Including a half dozens attacks on US personal and interest (including one on mainland US soil) during the Clinton Administration, all of which went basically unanswered.
Fact: Kerry’s voting record in the US Congress has systematically failed to support any military defense spending. While his Purplehearts might suggest that he is a hero on the battle field, he has certainly done little to support the security of this nation since then.
Fact: Since 2001 there have been no terrorist attacks against US interest or personal outside of war zones specifically declared by the US, and indeed no terrorist attacks on US soil.
There are lots of reasons to vote for Bush in ’04, security is only one of them. Low taxes is certainly a big winner for me. Kerry will raise taxes on the middle class as soon as he is in office. It is the only way he can support his socialist dreams. But only a fool marginalizes the importance of security of this country. Pretending that the Bush Administration is proselytizing fear for its own purpose is moot. The fact is the danger is real and only a fool ignores it.
In Kerry’s ridiculous speech the other day, he made a bullshit comment about families needing to take up a collection for their military son’s and daughter’s body armor. Kerry refused to vote for the money that was needed to support our troops and he has the audacity to make this bullshit comment? If Kerry had had his way, our troops would probably need to scavenge the land for their own food. Now he takes credit for what other senators did. There are lots of reasons not to vote for Kerry, as well.
Kerry simply has failed to define himself. He arrogantly proclaims that he will get international support for the war. But international support is already there. And the Bush Administration spent almost a year in negotiations to secure what international support was available. Now Kerry pops up out of no where, seemingly, and decides that he’s got it all figured out. Well, if that were the case, then where was he when all this going on in the first place? Either he doesn’t have a clue, or he’s working against US defense, as his voting record suggests.
Demonizing Bush as a tyrant using fear to motivate people is ridiculous.
3000 people died on 9-11 because we, as a nation, did not take our defense seriously enough. That’s not fear-mongering. It’s a fact. If you have any questions about that, consult the 9-11 committee; that was their conclusion. Both Democrats and Republicans are to blame; indeed, all of us are to blame. But in general, the only people I see, today, marginalizing the defense of this country are Liberal Democrats, particularly those who want to get Kerry in office.
If you have to pretend that the current and real terrorism against this country is nothing more then the fear-mongering fantasies in order to get Kerry elected, then it may be a serious danger to this country for Kerry to be in office right now.
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Hey Finn, please take this to another thread. This thread is very long and most people with dial up will not read it. Most of us who are still reading it are not here to talk about Kerry's fitness for office. Your sentiments would fit very nicely into the "Fantastic Speech" thread about Kerry's speech at the DNC.
That said, I really gotta comment on your closing remarks. They seem to reflect a very shallow reading of the issues discussed in this thread and a very simplistic black and white assessment of the current political situation that is specifically critiqued in many of the posts here.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
If you have to pretend that the current and real terrorism against this country is nothing more then the fear-mongering fantasies in order to get Kerry elected, then it may be a serious danger to this country for Kerry to be in office right now.
You seem to think that Bush cannot be a fear-mongerer if the threat of terrorism is real. Since the threat of terrorism is real, then people who think Bush is a fear-mongerer are dangerously deluded.
But I think a lot of very sensible people would say that the threat of terrorism is real AND that Bush is a fear-mongerer. Many of us see his war in Iraq to be a ruinously expensive tangent in a real war on terror. Fear-mongering fantasy #1: Saddam has WMD's and intends to use them against the U.S. Fear-mongering fantasy #2: Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks. Fear-mongering fantasy #3: If you do not support Bush's policies whole-sale, then you are putting guns in the hands of terrorist.
There are different ways to fight terrorism. Just because a method can be defined as successful, doesn't make it the right method. If my hand itches I can cut it off and it won't itch anymore, but maybe there would have been other less destructive ways for me to deal with the itch.
Drakon above has stated that he can imagine a situation where killing "every living thing from Marocco to the Indian border" would be necessary to insure our security. He hopes it won't come to that, but if we have to commit de facto genocide, he's saying he'd go along in the interest of our survival.
You see, without a more complex awareness of our needs as human beings, mere logic and the need for security can lead to madness and genocide.
I see Bush's policies speeding toward that kind of future when we need to be pulling back.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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