human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Sunday, September 6, 2026 19:38
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Quote:JewelStaiteFan probably garbled this story about Porsche synthetic fuels:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Something like this makes the rounds every few years. The car that runs on WATER! The fuel that NASA developed that gets 200 mpg that GM bought up the rights to and killed. The car that runs off the earth's electromagentic filed!
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Anybody been talking about the new fuel? Comes from air, captures Oxygen from CO2, requires ZERO modifications to existing gas combustion engines?
Currently $11 per gallon, but getting reduced.
Pro Racing will have a year or 2 of running on it, Porsche is leading research.
Greens hate it, will eliminate their power of scare tactics over everybody.
Thinking about the chemistry of separating oxygen from CO2... well, that takes energy. Plants do it quite nicely using solar power, but I can't think of any process to do that that doesn't USE energy. ANd a process that USESenergy can't possibly be used to fuel anything.
Hey, I'll be happy to learn something very new, but if it happens it would completely overturn everything we think we know about physics and chemistry.
1) February 9, 2022 - Stanford engineers create a catalyst that can turn carbon dioxide into gasoline 1,000 times more efficiently
Captured CO2 can be turned into carbon-neutral fuels, but technological advances are needed. In new research, a new catalyst increased the production of long-chain hydrocarbons in chemical reactions by some 1,000 times over existing methods.
Cargnello and other researchers working to make liquid fuels from captured carbon imagine a carbon-neutral cycle in which carbon dioxide is collected, turned into fuel, burned again and the resulting carbon dioxide begins the cycle anew.
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/02/09/turning-carbon-dioxide-gasoline-e
fficiently/
2) June 2, 2023 - The future of greenhouse gases
A chemical engineer explains why he thinks a better approach to greenhouse gases in the sky is to turn them into other chemicals.
. . . you can take CO2 and create more complex molecules, for example, hydrocarbons, so then we could make fuels like gasoline that power our cars from CO2 and hydrogen . . . Although it's not the best way we have in order to reduce the amount of CO2 that we put into the atmosphere but it's a way to go. And more recently, I'm excited to share with you that we've also been making ethanol, which is basically alcohol from CO2. I joke with my students, they were making booze from air. So in principle, the idea is to take CO2 from the atmosphere and hydrogen from sustainable renewable processes and make ethanol.
https://engineering.stanford.edu/magazine/future-greenhouse-gases
3) April 21, 2023 - Porsche synthetic fuels to power early 911 race
‘The potential of e-fuels is huge,’ said Steiner. ‘There are currently more than 1.3 billion vehicles with combustion engines worldwide. Many of these will be on the roads for decades to come, and e-fuels offer the owners of existing cars a nearly carbon-neutral alternative.’
Stuttgart has a 12.5% stake in HIF Global, the group behind the Chilean facility (above) with a capacity of 130,000 litres a year in this pilot phase. However, once full production is reached, Porsche expects to be producing 55 million litres annually by mid-decade, and 550m litres by 2027.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/tech/porsche-synthetic-fuels/
4) 07/07/2023 How to make eFuels truly sustainable
Synthetic fuels can potentially run internal combustion engines almost CO2 neutrally – when they are produced with renewable energy.
The fuel produced in Chile therefore consists of nothing other than air and water and can be sold at gas stations around the world. It’s also worth noting that all internal combustion engines can be operated with eFuel, from classic cars to high-performance race cars. Once availability reaches a certain level, combustion will release no more CO2 than what was ex
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Sorry, I guess I failed to include the key term eFuel.
Looks like your 3rd and 4th links got it.
Sounds like this has not been discussed around here yet.
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/porsche-replacing-gasoline-air-water
https://corporate.exxonmobil.com/news/news-releases/2021/0330_exxonmob
il-and-porsche-test-lower-carbon-fuel-in-race-conditions
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/05/why-porsche-is-investing-100-million-o
n-efuels.html
https://www.efuel-alliance.eu/political-demands/fuel-market
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35577611/porsche-synthetic-efuel-cl
ean-emissions-testing/
https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/20/porsche-pumps-first-synthetic-fuel-a
s-chilean-plant-finally-starts-producing/
https://www.motortrend.com/features/porsche-supercup-efuel-direct-air-
carbon-capture/
Hope that helps.
No, I have not had time to read through all that. But it does sond like the same interviews I've been hearing about on radio - and these revelations are NOW, not old stories like these listed.
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Quote:The EU has got a clever way to avoid having both a regular gasoline pump and an eFuel pump by blending eFuel into regular gasoline. That way there will be only one price for fuel rather than two prices. Everybody pays for eFuel, rather than just the ones who believe in climate change. In the USA, most people will refuse to buy eFuel because it will be more expensive than gasoline (and climate change is a Chinese Hoax). The EU won't have that problem of buyers refusing to pay the price because eFuel will be in every grade of gasoline (despite a religious belief climate change is a hoax).
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Sorry, I guess I failed to include the key term eFuel.
Looks like your 3rd and 4th links got it.
Quote:https://www.efuel-alliance.eu/political-demands/fuel-market
For example, an EU-wide blending of just 5% eFuels to conventional fuel, would result in a saving of 60 million tons of CO2 – equivalent to taking 40 million cars off the road for an entire year. This is essential to meet EU climate targets, as a big part of today's more than 300 million vehicles with an internal combustion engine (ICE) will continue to dominate our roads for many years to come.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Ok, I see what they're doing.
Here's the deal ...
We combine carbon with oxygen and that releases energy (in the form of heat) which we use for power. If you take a dozen carbon atoms and combine them with a dozen oxygen molecules you'll create a dozen molecules of carbon dioxide plus heat. But the carbon dioxide molecule itself is at a lower state of energy than the total energies of the carbon atoms and oxygen molecules separated.
In order to break that oxygen off those carbon dioxide molecules and return them to their original state of carbon and oxygen, you have to add back AT LEAST AS MUCH ENERGY AS YOU RELEASED when they combined. More, because of inefficiency of process.
It's not that producing eFuel doesn't take energy ... it does. They just plan on using wind and/or solar. It's just a way of turning wind energy and carbon dioxide and water back into burnable fuel, apparently made more realizeable with the development of a superior catalyst.
Quote:
The first step in manufacturing eFuels – electrolysis for hydrogen production – requires a great deal of energy, which is what makes the perpetual availability of green electricity so important. Water (H2O) is a very stable chemical compound. Two hydrogen atoms (H) bond with an oxygen atom (O) to form a water molecule. It takes a great deal of energy to extract hydrogen from this compound. Because the Patagonian wind offers inexhaustible energy, hydrogen can be generated there more sustainably and affordably. In regions with limited energy, any electricity produced has to be used directly for the greatest benefit.
In addition to hydrogen, eFuel production requires a second component, carbon dioxide (CO2), which is a greenhouse gas that at high concentrations in the atmosphere promotes global warming. CO2 can be filtered from the air using direct air capture, a process by which air flows through a ceramic filter similar to a catalytic converter in a car. However, rather than precious metals, the flow channels use a chemical substance to bind CO2 molecules. Once all of the spaces are filled with CO2, the filter is closed, vacuumed, and heated. Heat releases the CO2, which can then be vacuumed into a tank. In concrete terms, one liter of eFuel requires hydrogen from three liters of desalinated seawater and CO2 from 6,000 cubic meters of air.
Preparation and use of eFuels
A synthesis plant then binds the hydrogen and CO2 to create methanol, which is age resistant and suitable for storage and transportation. Ship engines are currently designed for operation with methanol. However, use in passenger cars requires further processing, with additional carbon compounds added in the final step of synthesis, methanol to gasoline. The end product is a gasoline and diesel alternative as well as eFuel for mixing with conventional, mineral oil–based fuels for ongoing reduction of emissions.
IMHO the limitation of this process is the number of sites that are capable of gnerating massive reliable "green power". Look at the location in this article: The southermost tip of South America. Not too many places like that!
There is a book that describes part of tis process, called "The Methanol Economy"
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"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
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Scientists in disbelief as temperatures soar to 37C in South America in the middle of winter
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-04/south-america-extreme-heat-mid-
winter-climate-change-scientists/102678662
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Quote:Most of U.S. wind electricity generation capacity is in the middle of the country.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
IMHO the limitation of this process is the number of sites that are capable of gnerating massive reliable "green power". Look at the location in this article: The southermost tip of South America. Not too many places like that!
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/wind/where-wind-power-is-harnessed
.php
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Most of U.S. wind electricity generation capacity is in the middle of the country.
Problem solved then.
Charge people on the coasts $3 per kWh for wind energy.
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How you do anything is how you do everything.
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Quote:When electricity costs five cents per kWh, it can't be sold at $3. I assume you are unaware of high-voltage direct current power lines to transfer very cheap green electricity for thousands of miles because Trumptards are opposed to electromagnetic radiation. Instead, Trumptards' imagination ends with coal-fired electricity since they were stupid assholes struggling to stay in the middle-class years before Trump got into politics because of their alcoholism, their opioid addiction, their divorces, their unemployment, their flunking out of school, their poor business sense, their excessive spending, etc.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Most of U.S. wind electricity generation capacity is in the middle of the country.
Problem solved then.
Charge people on the coasts $3 per kWh for wind energy.
The GOP no longer loves power lines. That's bad for Biden's climate goals.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/06/02/gop-no-longer-loves
-power-lines-that-bad-biden-climate-goals/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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SECOND, if eFuel felt that middle America was suitable for their project, they would have picked middle America. But they didn't.
Why?
Bc the wind there is INTERMITTENT. The reason why they chose Patagonia is bc the wind blows strongly, and in the same direction, an astonishing 270 days per year.
From the same source:
Quote:
From a global perspective, our planet is rich in energy thanks to the inexhaustible resources sun and wind. But that’s not necessarily the case on a local level, as regions with limited wind and sun can cover little to none of their energy requirements with these sources. In Germany, for example, wind turbines operate at full capacity just 66 days out of the year on average. ...
Punta Arenas has a population of around 130,000 and is located in the Patagonia region at the southern tip of Chile, making it the southernmost large city in the world. It’s also the most important center of trade on the western coast of the Strait of Magellan. This area is known for its strong winds, which blow incessantly across the barren landscape, almost always from the same direction. They’re so powerful that they can transform trees into bizarre sculptures, which are referred to as “flag trees.” Wind turbines could operate at maximum capacity 270 days a year here,
https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2023/sustainability/porsche-how-to-mak
e-efuels-truly-sustainable-christophorus-407-33013.html
Wind power IS important! There's a reason why old Midwestern farms had windmills to power their water well pumps! But it's intermittent, even in the Midwest. As you should remember, TEXAS had a problem when a huge blizzard froze both your wind turbines AND your nat gas valves. You can't rely on hopium. You have to plan for outages distribution, storage, and backup.
If you can transfer electricity from a region that's producing to an area that isn't, have storage batteries that can last a day, that's great. But you still might need emergency generators... "peaker units" ... to take up the slack.
-----------
"It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal." - Henry Kissinger
Loving America is like loving an addicted spouse - SIGNYM
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Looks like the Cape Horn tip is similar latitude south as north is for Ketchikan, AK, Hudson Bay, Glasgow, Copenhagen.
I read it is 100 degrees F this week there, the middle of their winter.
Internet says it is "inhospitable" there - what better place to use for producing power? If everybody could put power plants in the middle of the desert, effectively barren land, they likely would.
This Sur portion of Chile apparently also has great Hydro resources. The steep mountains flow water directly into the ocean, without any pause. This sounds almost like a wonderful place for hydro-electric dams - another free source of electricity.
Chile could well become the energy producer of the world. More power to them.
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