The Atheist Church

POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Friday, December 12, 2025 16:53
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BYTEMITE

Monday, September 16, 2013 10:40 AM

Quote:
Personally, i miss the community that comes with church going, and I miss the comfort of known rituals that accompany birth, relationships, death etc. I miss being able to pray when things suck, and knowing that other people are praying with you or for you as well. It's not about the big god on the other side listening, but more knowing that there is a group of people who are thinking collectively about you.

"Hey, good luck on your new baby/job/love interest/graduation/surgery! We're all pulling for you!"

Problem solved.

Also, my atheist parents had approximately zero problems raising me to be both atheist and completely uninterested in the pop-culture peer pressure goodies-rewards-fear-punishment system of most (all?) modern religions.

In Utah.

Surrounded by MORMONS who are, to put it lightly, COMPLETELY RELENTLESS. And who also constitute a vast majority of my actual blood relatives, who I see every Sunday.

Give your kids more credit. You raised them, the mechanisms of faith are likely to be completely transparent and nonsensical to them. Just as children raised with faith generally can't understand at all how anyone could NOT believe.

No, this organized church for atheists tastes more like... A seedy, awful power grab. Perhaps promoted by various interests who would like to encourage secular unified completely un-diverse societies for their own benefits and our detriment. I would have no truck with these people who think they are clever enough to manipulate me.

BYTEMITE

Monday, September 16, 2013 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

I believe more and more we are being conditioned to not be able to tolerate others, its part of being in societies that value the individual so completely.

if its all about ME, and my happiness, and everyone around me is alsp all about THEM and their individual happiness, then it stands to reason that we piss each other off quite easily.

I feel the passing of my parents generation, the depression/ww2 era people. what they lacked in imagination, they made up for in their capacity to think more widely than their own personal needs. Something went missing in generations after the war.

Hardly. That is merely only the confluence of rose coloured glasses and the traditional mistrust of every generation towards the younger generations.

Here in America, that WW2 generation was often the generation that was directly in opposition to the 60s counterculture, including civil rights, anti-war sentiments, gender freedom, and, of course, anarchism.

This continued up until about the 80s, when the "Me" Generation arose... The last crop of the baby boomers. Who, as it turned out, eventually managed around a $2,000 plus donations to charity yearly, at least until the economic downturn.

And then there's the lazy, self-obsessed millenial generation. Aren't they all just twit(ter)s? Surely nothing good will come of any of them. Except they are more in touch with social issues and community with each other and the world than previous generations could be, due to technology constraints. The millenial generation started Occupy Wall Street. The millenial generation invented alternative pay-what-you-want systems that help out poorer customers. And they also give about as much to charity as older generations, which is surprising as they are NOT necessarily established financially and the job markets are shit for new workers.

http://nonprofit.about.com/od/donorrelations/a/youngdonors.htm

So what does this all mean? Could it be that ALL generations have EQUAL capacity for altruism, and they really AREN'T getting any worse? That perhaps people are the same, always have been, and always will be, no matter when they lived? Is it possible that the perception of generations being worse is actually malicious fear-mongering from certain political and religious groups that make gravy from parents and grandparents being scared of their own kids? Astonishing.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, September 16, 2013 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

"Hey, good luck on your new baby/job/love interest/graduation/surgery! We're all pulling for you!"

Problem solved.

Also, my atheist parents had approximately zero problems raising me to be both atheist and completely uninterested in the pop-culture peer pressure goodies-rewards-fear-punishment system of most (all?) modern religions.

In Utah.

Surrounded by MORMONS who are, to put it lightly, COMPLETELY RELENTLESS. And who also constitute a vast majority of my actual blood relatives, who I see every Sunday.

Give your kids more credit. You raised them, the mechanisms of faith are likely to be completely transparent and nonsensical to them. Just as children raised with faith generally can't understand at all how anyone could NOT believe.

I never mentioned my kids. That was Wishimay. I'm speaking solely for myself as one who as raised within a church and no longer believes.

If it's not for you, meh. I don't think its compulsory, so if something like this was happening in my area, I'd check it out. Cautiously.

if its not something that works for you, then don't participate. I don't believe it to be compulsory.

Quote:

No, this organized church for atheists tastes more like... A seedy, awful power grab. Perhaps promoted by various interests who would like to encourage secular unified completely un-diverse societies for their own benefits and our detriment. I would have no truck with these people who think they are clever enough to manipulate me.

That is a rather pressimistic view of something that seems at worst, kind of pointless, but rather benign. But that's you huh, I remember having similar conversations where you were suspicious of meditation being put to nefarious uses to make us all calm and happy. Oh the horror, the horror.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Monday, September 16, 2013 2:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

So what does this all mean? Could it be that ALL generations have EQUAL capacity for altruism, and they really AREN'T getting any worse? That perhaps people are the same, always have been, and always will be, no matter when they lived? Is it possible that the perception of generations being worse is actually malicious fear-mongering from certain political and religious groups that make gravy from parents and grandparents being scared of their own kids? Astonishing.

My you are being oppositional today. And is that a tad of hostility I detect?

i didn't say that generations were getting worse, in fact I have consistently argued the opposite.

But generations are different, particularly the pre and post war generations. I personally can't see big differences in baby boomers, gen x y etc.

There has been much written about the change from collective cultures to individualistic cultures and I think a big leap happened in the generation post war. Doesn't mean that collective cultures = all good and individualistic = all bad. Collective cultures tend to be more intolerant of difference, but more supportive of members. Individualistic cultures tend to be more tolerant, but members can be isolated from one another. Collective buffers against failure, individualistic celbrates success and shuns failure. of course I',m generalising, and I don't suggest that my parents were apart of a collective culture, just a slightly less individualistic one.

I have seen first hand the flaws of that generation, but as I grow older and they die off, I can also mourn for their good qualities that are passing with them.

BYTEMITE

Monday, September 16, 2013 8:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

That is a rather pressimistic view of something that seems at worst, kind of pointless, but rather benign.

Erm. YEAH? What's it been, five years since I showed up on this shore? How many times have I had to say I'm a cynic? And this still surprises people? Of COURSE I'm gonna be suspicious, and also just a little bit paranoid, because I've got good REASON to be. This idea is so questionable, that I can't help but think the reason it's so bizarre is because there must be ulterior motives at play.

Quote:
But that's you huh, I remember having similar conversations where you were suspicious of meditation being put to nefarious uses to make us all calm and happy. Oh the horror, the horror.

Red herring, but if you want to go there, I also have no truck with empty spiritualism and superstitions. Believe them if you want, but the people pushing these agenda ridden practices can ONLY lead to manipulation and charlatanism. Boy oh boy, I just love me all them "experts" who say you can meditate away cancer with positive thinking, no surgery or chemo required, they'll teach you how for the low low cost of a thousand bucks a month.

People die because of this. So yes, I will fight against these these "pointless but benign" practices and the "science" that supports them with my teeth and claws BARED.

Quote:
My you are being oppositional today. And is that a tad of hostility I detect?

Absolutely. See previous.

But it's not at YOU unless you want to make it about you. You probably don't post these things thinking you're helping assholes con people. Malice is not in your motivations. But I doubt you'll listen to me when I try to warn you off.

The true test will be, when the alarms sound in your mind, if you will heed THOSE. As for me, I suppose I have to learn that I must let things play out, and sometimes people have to experience that kind of betrayal for themselves before they can see the existence of it.

Quote:
I have seen first hand the flaws of that generation, but as I grow older and they die off, I can also mourn for their good qualities that are passing with them.

I am surrounded by people on this board who think that generations ARE getting worse. If you reject that particular message, good, but you don't really give that impression when you talk about how generations have "lost" some fundamental good quality, and hint that it might be because current generations are so individualistic.

Side note: the people in my generation are collectivist as HELL (see again Occupy Wall Street and hipster communes), and I'm more of a bristling jerkass outlier. Previous generations actually knew how to support themselves, individualistically, whereas my generation has been so coddled by over-protective parenting they have no idea what they're even doing, and couldn't find common sense in a paper bag.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, September 17, 2013 1:55 AM

Quote:
If you crave the group/community without God then this looks great, not sure why anyone would dismiss it, seems way too early.

Other than to " make the world more wonderful ", there does seem to be lacking a real central theme, per the video.

Why would anyone be 'skeptical' of such an effort ? While it sounds noble on the surface, we can thank the charlatans of the ACTUAL Church ( Xtian ), who do have a very well established sales pitch, a couple of thousand years of history, who, on occasion, still non the less fleece their flock and even at times help themselves to the women folk, ( under the veil of 'guiding them', you see ), to all sorts of cultish activity. From the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, to Westboro Baptists, there's all manner of reasons and examples for folks to be skeptical.

As for joining up w/ like minded folks, of course that sounds nice. The main reason many folks attend churches are to hear the choirs, which can be quite uplifting. That and the killer pipe organs which bellow out in those big churches. Really a crowd pleaser, those can be.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Erm. YEAH? What's it been, five years since I showed up on this shore? How many times have I had to say I'm a cynic? And this still surprises people? Of COURSE I'm gonna be suspicious, and also just a little bit paranoid, because I've got good REASON to be. This idea is so questionable, that I can't help but think the reason it's so bizarre is because there must be ulterior motives at play.

Right, I do know that you tend to be quite paranoid and have a harsh view on things. Tends to make conversations difficult/

Quote:
I also have no truck with empty spiritualism and superstitions. Believe them if you want, but the people pushing these agenda ridden practices can ONLY lead to manipulation and charlatanism. Boy oh boy, I just love me all them "experts" who say you can meditate away cancer with positive thinking, no surgery or chemo required, they'll teach you how for the low low cost of a thousand bucks a month.

People die because of this. So yes, I will fight against these these "pointless but benign" practices and the "science" that supports them with my teeth and claws BARED.

People dont die because of meditation practices, but because charlatans are spouting nonsense. No science backs up these claims of curing cancer. Meditation is a practice that some people find useful in bringing a bit of calm to their lives. The science does back up the impact on the brain, but yes I remember your reaction to that. You don't believe in scientific data, or perhaps just not what other people quote.

In any event, your nihilism is too much for me to stomach today.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, September 17, 2013 5:08 AM

Quote:
You don't believe in scientific data, or perhaps just not what other people quote.

Okay. Let it be known that YOU are the one who escalated this.

Heh. I don't believe in science? Pissed you off, so I must be wrong, I must be illogical, I must not be scientific!

You throw me a bunch of studies that I can immediately find flaws in, I can quote you meta-studies notable enough to be cited in a gorramn wikipedia article that says the combination of all these studies indicates the effects of meditation are INCONCLUSIVE and how they often use poor methodology to the point where only 10% of such studies actually pass the test of scientific rigour. I can tell you that meta-analysis found that effects on the brain are largely indistinct from any other kind of relaxation technique someone might practice, and I can even poke holes in the lofty mental silence meditation promoters and how they predictably claim theirs is the best. And you have the gall to say I'm being unscientific.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_on_meditation

Damned right I don't have an open mind, and good thing too, I might start believing some silver-tongued fool with pretty words and a head fulla fluff has all the answers I need in my life, that just being around like-minded individuals can make me feel better about myself and make me a better person, instead of questioning myself, looking for answers on my own and coming to terms with them.

Atheist religion. Scientific meditation. No, it doesn't start to sound any better the more I say it.

So believe as you want, and I know you will, but don't you dare pretend I don't have good valid and scientically supportable reason for believing what I do and that you have the monopoly on the science on this issue. If you can consider your views supportable then dammit so can mine.

STORYMARK

Wednesday, September 18, 2013 2:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

The only way such an organization would interest me is as a discussion
group. Everyone gets a chance to have their say.

Sounds a lot like our local Unitarian Church, which has members of most major faiths, as well as atheists.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

JAYNEZTOWN

Monday, August 18, 2025 8:09 PM

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