Real World Event Discussions

how we crept into the total surveillance society

POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Thursday, October 9, 2025 17:04
VIEWED: 6528
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AURAPTOR

Tuesday, July 2, 2013 11:55 AM

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, July 2, 2013 12:28 PM

Younger generations don't see privacy the way past generations have. They have grown up broadcasting their lives to the world on Facebook and Twitter. The expectation of privacy is changing.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, July 2, 2013 2:56 PM

Just because some people my age are complete MORONS who think they can become famous via blog postings doesn't mean all of us are.

But even so, what we're talking about isn't JUST a privacy thing. We all have to be watched to make sure we're innocent and fuzzy and not committing any crimes, but the powerful and rich elite upper class who run this show get a free pass on that? Because it's for our own good and because it's national security and oh jeez, they CAN'T broadcast their activities to enemies and outsiders even if their intentions are so HONORABLE, that would be dangerous for everyone!

Surely if us average people are so well meaning there's no need for us to hide, just as there's every reason for our societal superiors to obfuscate everything THEY do. Why would anyone have a problem with this being entirely backwards on the basis of power wielded and the need for transparency about uses of said power? Why, they've been chosen by the greater public in a laughably dishonest shell game of a selection process, and being so chosen by the people, they're entitled to represent the nation's interests however they see fit without any input from any of us or any accountability.

Horray! Horray for these thieves and murderers and liars and hypocrites, that they can do what they need to uphold the law and keep us safe, up to and including breaking said laws to HARM US. How marvelous a system, how refined it's workings!

SIGNYM

Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:05 PM

How eloquent. Thank you, BYTE.

M52NICKERSON

Tuesday, July 2, 2013 3:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Just because some people my age are complete MORONS who think they can become famous via blog postings doesn't mean all of us are.

But even so, what we're talking about isn't JUST a privacy thing. We all have to be watched to make sure we're innocent and fuzzy and not committing any crimes, but the powerful and rich elite upper class who run this show get a free pass on that? Because it's for our own good and because it's national security and oh jeez, they CAN'T broadcast their activities to enemies and outsiders even if their intentions are so HONORABLE, that would be dangerous for everyone!

Surely if us average people are so well meaning there's no need for us to hide, just as there's every reason for our societal superiors to obfuscate everything THEY do. Why would anyone have a problem with this being entirely backwards on the basis of power wielded and the need for transparency about uses of said power? Why, they've been chosen by the greater public in a laughably dishonest shell game of a selection process, and being so chosen by the people, they're entitled to represent the nation's interests however they see fit without any input from any of us or any accountability.

Horray! Horray for these thieves and murderers and liars and hypocrites, that they can do what they need to uphold the law and keep us safe, up to and including breaking said laws to HARM US. How marvelous a system, how refined it's workings!

Not all of you, but a vast majority. Not that they think they can become famous, but they do post almost everything they do on social media. It should not be a surprise that others are going to look to use that data. Companies to sell you things, Governments to protect people and themselves.

The difference between you and I is that you see the system as rigged. While I see the problem as the people. I don't think the system is rigged, I think people are not paying enough attention. Folks in power get away with things because we let them.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

1KIKI

Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:50 AM

"Folks in power get away with things because we let them."

Well, that and a few billion that helps them keep what they do secret.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 3, 2013 4:51 AM

Quote:
While I see the problem as the people. I don't think the system is rigged, I think people are not paying enough attention.

If you think the system ISN'T rigged, tell me how the average person, or a group of typical people, can stop government surveillance and corporate data-collection.

BYTEMITE

Wednesday, July 3, 2013 2:52 PM

Quote:
Not all of you, but a vast majority. Not that they think they can become famous, but they do post almost everything they do on social media. It should not be a surprise that others are going to look to use that data. Companies to sell you things, Governments to protect people and themselves.

And here I thought laws existed in part to protect people from their own stupidity.

Yes, that facebook and twitter and google were and are notorious dataminers is OBVIOUS. I've only been saying that since they appeared, and even refused to join social networking sites despite pressure from idiot friends my age because I KNEW this shit was going to be monitored. And everyone looked at me funny, laughed, and said I was paranoid.

It even became a running joke back in high school and college. "Hey, join myspace/facebook!" they'd say. "No way," I'd call back, "don't you know those sites are crawling with the Feds?" And we'd all have a good laugh: lawl lawl oh byte with her tinfoil hat conspiracy theories playing up to the crowd, ever the funny class jester.

Not ONE of them expected that their information might be gathered. They were NAIVE. It's not that they don't have the same concept of privacy, it's that they didn't think people would be violating their privacy to look at personal communications.

And you know what? Just because I wasn't naive, just because I was savvy enough to avoid some obvious pitfalls, laws against predatory business practices, unwarranted search and seizure, and abuse of government power aren't written for people like me. They're written for people like THEM. There SHOULD be a reasonable expectation of privacy for personal communications and for businesses with internet sales that have to gather credit card and shipping information.

To look at people who have been burned by this and just say they should have expected this not only doesn't solve the problem, it's making excuses for this stuff. What you're saying is that this is how it is, too bad, instead of asking yourself if this is good or bad.

The public should have shut down these business practices and investigation techniques a long time ago and are only just now waking up enough for there to be an outcry.

Better late than never, sez me.

SIGNYM

Wednesday, July 3, 2013 3:27 PM

Same here, BYTE. Only I'm telling people MY age. Not those on FB or Twitter, but those who think the Amazon and Google are their friends.

NICK- I repeat my question so it doesn't get lost: If you think that they system ISN'T rigged, tell me how an average person, or a group of typical people, can stop government surveillance and corporate data-collection.

1KIKI

Thursday, July 4, 2013 4:26 AM

I heard Lawrence Lessig being interviewed the other day. Brief background - he is a "former board member of the Free Software Foundation, Software Freedom Law Center and the Electronic Frontier Foundation." WIKI

Why former, I wonder. Perhaps they had a parting of the ways due to his current liking of corporate data mining for your purchasing convenience. But even he draws the line at government data mining, or government use of data mined by others.