Romney Holds Fast and Furiously to his limited Tax Return Release
POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Monday, July 23, 2012 20:51
VIEWED: 8250
PAGE 2 of 5
Earlier today I was pondering McCain, thinking that people must be all over him to hear what was in all those years of Romney's tax returns. But then I read the following, which is the best speculation I've heard about this Romney's tax fiasco (and the writer makes it clear that this is PURELY speculation):
When the stock market collapsed in 2008, the wealthiest investors fared worse than everyone else...
As a member of the ultra-rich, Romney probably wasn’t spared major losses. And it’s possible he suffered a large enough capital loss that, carried forward and coupled with his various offshore tax havens, he wound up paying no U.S. federal taxes at all in 2009. If true, this would be politically deadly for him. Even assuming that his return was thoroughly clean and legal—a safe assumption, it seems to me—the fallout would dwarf the controversy that attended the news that Romney had paid a tax rate of just 14 percent in 2010 and that estimated he’d pay a similar rate in 2011.
The “zero tax in 2009” theory—again, this is sheer speculation—gains further sustenance when you consider it’s the only year for which nobody knows anything about Romney’s taxes. He’s revealed what’s in his 2010 and 2011 returns, and he reportedly submitted 20-some years’ worth of returns to the McCain campaign when he was being vetted for vice president in 2008. Steve Schmidt, McCain’s chief strategist in that campaign, said on MSNBC last night that while he didn’t examine Romney’s returns himself, nothing that McCain’s vetters found in them disqualified Romney from consideration.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-07-17/whats-romney-hiding-in
-his-tax-returns
It just hadn't occurred to me that - duh! - of course McCain never saw Romney's taxes during the collapse. No one has seen those but Mitt, his closest minions, and the IRS.
A CNN news host came to the same conclusion - that the problem for Mitt here is probably a very low taxe rate. She made the argument that he should just release his tax info and be honest, saying something like: "Yes, I paid very low (or no) taxes, but this is because the laws are flawed and I want to fix them!"
This anchor is being foolish, imo. Romney would lose the basis of his financial support if he made promises to get rid of loopholes and low rates for the wealthy. I've seen calculations: the uber-wealthy stand to make so much many from keeping their tax breaks that it's a no-brainer to shove a few million at Mitt's superPACs. If he no longer supports their tax breaks and loopholes, they'd have no reason to do it.
If this speculation is anywhere near true, Romney is fcuked. He absolutely can't release those tax records. But he also looks really really bad hiding them.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
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I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt. With the Birthers, there is no substantive evidence of their concerns. With Bainers, there are at least some official documents that show nominal ownership and control long after both were supposedly surrendered. The defense is that such ownership and control was merely a legal technicality, and not a functioning fact. However, while the birther claims are based on rumor and innuendo, the Bain concerns stem from actual official documents and require a larger context in order to dismiss.
In essence, it is a comparison between something unsubstantiated preposterous, and something which is technically true, but possibly not practically poignant.
Equivocating the two situations creates the erroneous impression that you have a personal bias on the matter, something I'm sure you did not intend.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
...Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt...
"Is!.. Isn't!" Is a perfectly apt comparison. It's not about the substance of the argument, it's about the shrill belief on either side.
Since there's no way to win an argument with a believer, the only logical move is not to play.
Kwindbago, hot air and angry electrons
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What you said, Anthony. And if everyone who's asking to see those returns is a "Bainer", which, for the reasons you gave, is absurd, then there's an awful lot of high-placed Republicans calling for Romney to release the returns...I guess they're the equivalent of Birthers, too, yes?
To compare the two is illogical on many fronts, starting with the fact that no previous candidate has been required to show his birth certificate, while it is a long-held tradition that they make public their tax returns. The birther controversy was BEGUN by good old Orly Taitz, who is out of her mind on her best day; there has never been any substantiation of it, his birth certificate WAS shown, and there's an end to it except for those who hate Obama so much or are so brainwashed that they won't let go.
Romney's tax returns, on the other hand, have been called for by people on his own side, pundits on both sides, supposed political "experts", and others...added to which, there isn't nearly the outcry among democratic extremists as there is from the birthers...INCLUDING Republican legislators, who continue to this day to hint about it.
I'll bet money if/when Romney relases them, you won't see people claiming they're faked nearly to the extent you have from birthers, and the veracity of them will be considerably more accepted.
No, I think the zero-tax theory is a good one; so is the theory that he had much more invested overseas--which looks bad--and that his tax rate in general has been lower than we already know--which also looks bad.
The possibility that he did something actually illegal is pretty low, in my opinion, but even that is possible. I'm crossing fingers that's not the answer, because it would make a mess, and what would the Republicans do then??? Their convention is just around the corner...who would they get to replace him at this late date? Ron Paul?? He's the only other one with delegates. It would be a total mess, and I don't want that. I want Romney as the Republican candidate, he's our best option for a second term.
More than anything, however, I think Romney is afraid of losing support because of what's in them. There is little, if any, comparison between birthers and the so-called "Bainers".
(Just as a side note, score one for our "non-partisan" Geezer, defending the right and coining a new term I hadn't heard before to disparage those on the left calling for the tax returns.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt. With the Birthers, there is no substantive evidence of their concerns. With Bainers, there are at least some official documents that show nominal ownership and control long after both were supposedly surrendered. The defense is that such ownership and control was merely a legal technicality, and not a functioning fact. However, while the birther claims are based on rumor and innuendo, the Bain concerns stem from actual official documents and require a larger context in order to dismiss.
In essence, it is a comparison between something unsubstantiated preposterous, and something which is technically true, but possibly not practically poignant.
Equivocating the two situations creates the erroneous impression that you have a personal bias on the matter, something I'm sure you did not intend.
--Anthony
Dammit, ANT, remove that invisible comment- it doesn't edit out and so it F888s up responses.
I don't care whether it's substantive or not-- what's sauce for the goose is good for the gander. Birthers been beating their moot point for at least 4 years. I plan to beat this one every ruttin' DAY from now 'till eternity, whatever Mitt releases, whether he gets elected or not. Complete with accusations of fraud and forgery. Payback is a ...
Tax cheaters for Romney, 2012.
Day 1 of the Bain-Gate scandal.
Mitt, release the real forms.
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Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt. With the Birthers, there is no substantive evidence of their concerns. With Bainers, there are at least some official documents that show nominal ownership and control long after both were supposedly surrendered. The defense is that such ownership and control was merely a legal technicality, and not a functioning fact. However, while the birther claims are based on rumor and innuendo, the Bain concerns stem from actual official documents and require a larger context in order to dismiss.
In essence, it is a comparison between something unsubstantiated preposterous, and something which is technically true, but possibly not practically poignant.
Equivocating the two situations creates the erroneous impression that you have a personal bias on the matter, something I'm sure you did not intend.
--Anthony
Dammit, ANT, remove that invisible comment- it doesn't edit out and so it F888s up responses.
I don't care whether it's substantive or not-- what's sauce for the goose is good for the gander. Birthers been beating their moot point for at least 4 years. I plan to beat this one every ruttin' DAY from now 'till eternity, whatever Mitt releases, whether he gets elected or not. Complete with accusations of fraud and forgery. Payback is a ...
Tax cheaters for Romney, 2012.
Day 1 of the Bain-Gate scandal.
Mitt, release the real forms.
Hello,
First, I take the trouble to return font color to white at the end of my signature line, so you must not be quoting me entire if you have a coloration problem.
Second of all, I was going to respond to this:
Quote:
It's not about the substance of the argument
With the fact that substance is important. Arguments based on substance are the product of people who employ rational thinking, and rational thinkers can be moved by evidence. Arguments based on nothing are the product of partisan true believers who can't be reached.
I think it was a strong argument.
Until you posted what you posted, citing yourself as caring for this based on revenge and not rational thought.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt. With the Birthers, there is no substantive evidence of their concerns. With Bainers, there are at least some official documents that show nominal ownership and control long after both were supposedly surrendered. The defense is that such ownership and control was merely a legal technicality, and not a functioning fact. However, while the birther claims are based on rumor and innuendo, the Bain concerns stem from actual official documents and require a larger context in order to dismiss.
In essence, it is a comparison between something unsubstantiated preposterous, and something which is technically true, but possibly not practically poignant.
Equivocating the two situations creates the erroneous impression that you have a personal bias on the matter, something I'm sure you did not intend.
--Anthony
Dammit, ANT, remove that invisible comment- it doesn't edit out and so it F888s up responses.
I don't care whether it's substantive or not-- what's sauce for the goose is good for the gander. Birthers been beating their moot point for at least 4 years. I plan to beat this one every ruttin' DAY from now 'till eternity, whatever Mitt releases, whether he gets elected or not. Complete with accusations of fraud and forgery. Payback is a ...
Tax cheaters for Romney, 2012.
Day 1 of the Bain-Gate scandal.
Mitt, release the real forms.
Hello,
First, I take the trouble to return font color to white at the end of my signature line, so you must not be quoting me entire if you have a coloration problem.
Second of all, I was going to respond to this:Quote:
It's not about the substance of the argument
With the fact that substance is important. Arguments based on substance are the product of people who employ rational thinking, and rational thinkers can be moved by evidence. Arguments based on nothing are the product of partisan true believers who can't be reached.
I think it was a strong argument.
Until you posted what you posted, citing yourself as caring for this based on revenge and not rational thought.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
I do tend to edit something I respond to, leaving only the stuff I want to respond to. It this case, your post, I thought that all I cut was your signiture. You're right, I see where you did reset the color to white, and I missed it somehow. and that's the difference between you and Niki. She doesn't do that, and my responses come out in blue, which annoys me.
I DO try not to distort the context of what I'm replying to. I'm sure that sometimes I do.
And if I pi***d you off, I am sorry. I was momentarily annoyed myself, and I vented.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I expect he doesn't want to release them because they'd get the same sort of reception from the Bainers as Pres. Obama's birth certificate gets from the Birthers.
Like this: http://wtop.com/209/2768144/Ariz-sheriff-says-Obama-birth-certificate-
is-fake
I'm betting that if Gov. Romney releases copies of his returns and they show nothing incorrect, the Bainers will accuse him of having altered them. Since the IRS can't legally confirm or deny their correctness, we'd have the same "Is fake. Isn't fake." nonsense until the election. Oh, boy.
Hello,
This is the second time I've seen you equate 'Bainers' to 'Birthers.' I'm not sure the comparison is apt. With the Birthers, there is no substantive evidence of their concerns. With Bainers, there are at least some official documents that show nominal ownership and control long after both were supposedly surrendered. The defense is that such ownership and control was merely a legal technicality, and not a functioning fact. However, while the birther claims are based on rumor and innuendo, the Bain concerns stem from actual official documents and require a larger context in order to dismiss.
In essence, it is a comparison between something unsubstantiated preposterous, and something which is technically true, but possibly not practically poignant.
Equivocating the two situations creates the erroneous impression that you have a personal bias on the matter, something I'm sure you did not intend.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
Hello,
Testing 'reply with quote' coloration.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hello,
I honestly don't know what's going on with the color.
It's evident the color is being returned to white, but nontheless the subsequent content appears black. I'm not sure why this is.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME