I am proud NOT to be an American!!

POSTED BY: alps2007
UPDATED: Saturday, March 22, 2014 08:49
VIEWED: 3539
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BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:57 PM

There's a big difference between saying "holy cats, did you guys know about this problem you have over there" and saying "holy cats, wouldn't want to be one of you!"

One of those is meaning to inform and concerned/sympathetic, the other is "I'm better than you." One of those implies a desire to help with the problem, the other is satisfaction and schadenfreude. And one of those is just saying there's a problem, while the other suggests everyone in the target population is either guilty or a victim of it.

Thread title was leaning more towards the later in all cases.

So, I called them on it. Remember, I'm not a particularly loyal or patriotic American myself. I wasn't offended by them thinking their country is better than ours.

I was offended by how they seemed to be proud of their country's level of child abuse (Seriously, what the hell?) and the Unfortunate Implications. I mean, if they're proud NOT to be an American, shouldn't they also not be proud of being British, or Australian, or whatever, since it also happens there?

We all have problems, serious social problems don't get better by people demonizing an entire population (in the case of Muslims), or using those problems to fuel their own smug sense of superiority. We can abhor our own problems without using other people's problems to feel better about ourselves.

NIKI2

Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:07 PM

While I agree with the "proud NOT to be", I didn't see it that way. And I think it's a very valid statement for a country which touts itself as the "best in the world". We aren't--by FAR--so I understand the sentiment.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 20, 2011 8:14 PM

Understood, but Niki, you are missing the Unfortunate Implications. It's not ABOUT America. It's about the way a lot of societies treat children.

Of course we're not the "best," no country is. But that's entirely irrelevant. It's ridiculous to compare the child abuse rates in two countries and say "I'm proud of my country for it's child abuse rate relative to the child abuse rates of other countries."

Quite simply any rate of child abuse is NOT something to be proud of.

NIKI2

Thursday, October 20, 2011 9:40 PM

I getcha. I think I just take it less personally is all. It's something that should be brought to the attention of everyone and that's all I saw it as. There are many things about America which make me less than proud, and when I hear we're "the greatest" it makes me cringe. I have no problem with us being taken down a peg or two and being reminded that SOME of the things "we're number one" at show we're NOT necessarily the greatest.

Having traveled, one of the things I found most unpleasant was that Americans are so loudly proudful (or they were back then anyway) and condescending. Maybe if we knew all the facts, we'd be less chest-puffing prideful and look to CHANGING this sort of thing. Chest puffing isn't irrelevant; it shapes how the rest of the world views us.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

BYTEMITE

Thursday, October 20, 2011 9:42 PM

Well sure. Self-righteous Americans annoy me too, for the same reasons.

RIONAEIRE

Thursday, October 20, 2011 9:58 PM

I think that at least a bit of pride in one's country of origin or choice is normal and good. I'm probably more patriotic than a decent chunk of board members here, but I think other people should think their countries are special too, being proud of where one comes from and all that. The title didn't really gel well with the topic, seems like a seperate issue. A more sensible title would have been something like "Tar-Rutting-Nation, you guys have really high abuse stats.". Oh well, he can call threads whatever he wants and I hope he is at least somewhat proud of where ever he comes from.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, October 21, 2011 6:02 PM

Oh bloody hell, I was goin from the bottom up and didn't see this - commented already but yeah, there were some of our facts and figures used for that, some stuff from Jordan Riak too as I recall...

And yeah, it's that bad, hell it's even worse, mostly cause our fucking sociopathic society and what it does to human beings in the process of supposedly-socializing them, grrr.

You forgot Madeline McCann too - but then everyone did, we were supposed to, since some folk know damn well what happened to her but it was politically inconvenient to investigate and so NCMEC flagged the case as /null and she was "dissappeared" from the media consciousness as effectively as she was disappeared from the earth - but not all justice is meted out in courtrooms, people...
Not all flowers that bloom in the dark are poisonous, either.

And yes, Oldenglanddry - the Philly thing.

I got into a HUGE furniture throwing argument with Justin over this - he thought that we should step forward cause they're basically adult "Closet Kids" and we have a damn lot of experience, more than I would have ever wanted, treating what I refer to as closet-kid-syndrome...
I disagreed, they're adults, adults HAVE advocates, they HAVE rights, they don't *NEED* our extremely limited resources and legal chicanery and protections the way children do.

Sure, you could make a case either way but buddas budding breasts, we got enough on our plate already dealing with the crap which everyone wishes wouldn't exist to the point of outright denial even when face to face with it, and frankly, this one DID make the news cause it was adults...

Believe me, HUNDREDS of cases JUST LIKE THIS in the Foster Care System... do not.
So, sorry, that one AIN'T OUR BALL to field, and we got into it, furniture was thrown, words were exchanged, and someone ELSE is gonna have to deal with that one, cause *wanting* to, and being *able* to, assist - they're different damn things.
And yeah verily maybe I am still a little pissed about it since he's my successor and in charge and having to come storming in to gainsay a bad decision makes me question the wisdom of nominating him such, maybe he's not ruthless enough, or maybe I am too ruthless, who can say.

Also worthy of rememberence..
Only two countries on the planet have not signed the UN Convention on the Rights of Children.
One is Somalia.
The other is the United States.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

RIONAEIRE

Monday, October 24, 2011 6:10 AM

Frem, would you please explain the "Philly" thing to me when you write back to my most recent letter? And you can tell me what you believe happened to Madelyn McCann too if you please.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, October 24, 2011 2:50 PM

Riona, the "Philly Thing" was that a bunch of mentally-disabled adults were kept in closet-kid conditions.

Quote:
Shocking pictures have emerged of the squalid and filthy conditions in which four mentally disabled people were apparently forced to live after being locked up in a basement.

One of the victims was found chained to a radiator and there was just a bucket for the group to urinate in, said police in Philadelphia, who compared the small boiler room to a "dungeon".
The 10ft by 15ft space contained a mattress with some bedding and a flat board with a pillow. There were a couple of water bottles but no food, officers added.

The four victims, three men and a woman aged between 29 and 41, were found on Saturday by the building's landlord, who said tenants had complained of suspicious people entering and leaving the building.

Turgut Gozleveli heard dogs barking when he was in the basement, where he kept his tools, and found a chain on a door to another room.

The 71-year-old shined a torch behind the door and discovered the four people and also three dogs.

He said: "I asked them what they are doing here, and how they got in. There was no communication. I asked questions and I didn't get any answers."

He said he freed the chained man and then called the police. "He was just watching me when I cut the chain."

The area was too small for an adult to stand up straight and reeked of human waste from the bucket the victims used to relieve themselves, according to officers.

All four are said to have the mental capacity of 10-year-olds, making it difficult for authorities to identify them and notify their families.

Malnourished, they have been taken to a shelter where they are receiving counselling and care.

Three people have been accused of locking them up so they could receive their disability benefits.

One of the trio, the suspected ringleader and convicted murderer Linda Weston, is alleged to have pretended to be the victims' carer in order to carry out the claimed fraud.

She may have also victimised dozens of other people, police said, as she had ID records for up to 50 people, including power of attorney paper work, and social security numbers, when she was arrested.

Weston's son and daughter lived in the building where the four were found. The pair have been co-operating with police and have not been charged.

The three defendants have been charged with kidnapping, aggravated assault, false imprisonment and other related offences. Bail was set at \$2.5m (£1.6m) but none of them posted it.

Weston, 50, will appear in court on Thursday. She was helped by homeless man Eddie Wright, 51, and 48-year-old Philadelphia resident Gregory Thomas, police said.

Sergeant Joseph Green said Weston may have others in captivity but she was not co-operating with the investigation.

At least two of the four victims in Philadelphia had travelled with Weston as she moved from city to city in Texas and Florida, Sgt Green said.

The other two had been with Weston since February and all of them arrived in Philadelphia earlier this month, he added.

Three of the alleged victims, who have been named as Tamara Breeden, Derwin McLemire and Herbert Knowles, said they were abused by Weston and two others while in her care for the last year.

Breeden said she was hit on her head and showed KYW-TV where she said her teeth were knocked out.

McLemire claimed he met Weston through an online dating service and tried to escape but did not get away "so they got" him.

Knowles, who had been found shackled to the boiler, said he was hit by one of the two arrested men.

Breeden had apparently been reported missing in 2005, but the case closed by police even though she had not been found.

And as mentioned, them being adults and having proper resources and advocates, they didn't need us the way kids who have none of those things do, resulting in a furniture chucking argument in the office - which I didn't "win" cause I was meaner, but because I was correct.

As for Maddie, she didn't surv

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, October 25, 2011 12:13 AM

Oh my rutting goodness. That pisses me the rut off. It sounds like she had two of them for only a while but that the others were with her longer. I understand where your colleague is coming from, but I guess one organization can't do it all and I should hope that there are things closer to their location, someone who can take them into their household and look after them etc. They better get lots of loving care now that's all I have to say. That is awful. And I don't like the idea of the dogs being put in there with them in that cramped space at all. Of course I don't like the whole thing at all but you know what I mean. When did this happen? Because I never saw it on the national news.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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