How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
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KPO

Friday, June 3, 2011 12:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
And leftists have never used the big lie strategy. Oh wait, what was the name of their party? National SOCIALIST party.

Hmm, I think I'm seeing a connection.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

Here's a good rebuttal of that position, from the Political Compass's FAQs:

Quote:
Why is Hitler slightly right ? The Nazis were socialists, so they weren't fascists either.

Let's start with the second part first. Some respondents confuse Nazism, a political party platform, with fascism, which is a particular structure of government. Fascism legally sanctions the persecution of a particular group within the country - political, ethnic, religious - whatever. So within Nazism there are elements of fascism, as well as militarism, capitalism, socialism etc. To tar all socialists with the national socialist brush is as absurd as citing Bill Gates and Augusto Pinochet in the same breath as examples of free market capitalism.
Economically, Hitler was well to the right of Stalin. Post-war investigations led to a number of revelations about the cosy relationship between German corporations and the Reich. No such scandals subsequently surfaced in Russia, because Stalin had totally squashed the private sector. By contrast, once in power, the Nazis achieved rearmament through deficit spending. One of our respondents has correctly pointed out that they actively discouraged demand increases because they wanted infrastructure investment. Under the Reich, corporations were largely left to govern themselves, with the incentive that if they kept prices under control, they would be rewarded with government contracts. Hardly a socialist economic agenda !
But Nazi corporate ties extended well beyond Germany. It is an extraordinarily little known fact that in 1933 a cabal of Wall Street financiers and industrialists plotted an armed coup against President Roosevelt and the US Constitutional form of government. The coup planners - all of them deeply hostile to socialism - were enthusiastic supporters of German national socialism and Italian fascism. Details of the little publicised Congressional report on the failed coup may be read in 1000 Americans:The Real Rulers of the USA by George Seldes.
Fascism, according to the American Heritage Dictionary (1983) is A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism. Italian philosopher Giovanni Gentile's entry in the Encyclopedia Italiana read: Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. No less an authority on fascism than Mussolini was so pleased with that definition that he later claimed credit for it.
Nevertheless, within certain US circles,the misconception remains that fascism is essentially left wing, and that the Nazis were socialists simply because of the "socialism" in their name. We wonder if respondents who insist on uncritically accepting the Nazis' cynical self-definition would be quite as eager to believe that the German Democratic Republic was democratic.

It's not personal. It's just war.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 3, 2011 12:56 PM

WULFIE

Quote:
So Kwick..."I didn't bother watching any of those..."

I didn't watch them either. You have a habit of posting vids of idiotic movies, songs, set-pieces and other propaganda, which you subsequently can't even explain, let alone defend.

Besides, if it was so easy to "win" an argument with liberals-progressives etc....

How come you can't do it HERE?

KPO

Friday, June 3, 2011 1:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
KPO:

Lol

Really?

How about YOU choose the RIGHT words then...

I mean outside what was said.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Ok. You mean I'm allowed to rewrite the script for the liberal woman? You'll have to rewrite the script of the conservative guy accordingly... Expect that the conversation might go a bit differently. What topic shall we write about?

Maybe we'll be able to upload our own video...

It's not personal. It's just war.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 3, 2011 1:23 PM

HARDWARE; I used to think you were a nuts-and-bolts kind of person who just really wanted to know what was going on. I began to get the idea that your view of the world was skewed in the Fukushima discussions, when you happily drank the TEPCO/ IAEA happy-talk Kool-Aid. Lately, you seem to have gone off the rails of reality and into the wilderness of irrelevant partisanship.

HARDWARE

Friday, June 3, 2011 3:14 PM

KPO,
What you point out is exactly like the democrats apparently standing for democracy, and promoting socialism. 70 members of congress were exposed as members of the Socialist Party of America in October 2009.

http://gatewaypundit.rightnetwork.com/2010/08/american-socialists-rele
ase-names-of-70-congressional-democrats-in-their-caucus/

Nancy Pelosi was also a member, until resigning her membership after it was exposed in December '08.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010602181018/http:/www.mmcw.homestead.com
/DSA.html

I cannot abide socialists or communists. I think learning about how the Nazis treated my godparents, and then how they were treated by the communists in Poland shows that there was little difference to the common man. Both are equally reprehensible.

I see now that the leftists on this board have to shout down any disagreement with their party line. Just as leftists do everywhere.

Keep on shouting. It is entertaining.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

HARDWARE

Friday, June 3, 2011 3:23 PM

Kwicko,
Read history. Try to understand it in the historical context, not just what you can understand viewing it in the aftermath. Germany was undergoing devastating, unprecedented levels of unemployment. Without even taking into account underemployment, their unemployment rate was over 30%.

Hitler and the Nazis took control of the labor unions and put people back to work. To the average man on the street he was like a godsend. The wages were low, but money was coming in.

What the Nazis became was something different and seeds of their eventual downfall were planted in Hitler's rise to power. But that all came later.

Oh, and if any of this sounds familiar to you, it should. We've forgotten the lessons of history.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

BYTEMITE

Friday, June 3, 2011 4:07 PM

Socialists, Communists, and Fascists all have various strong differences, but they tend to succumb to authoritarianism and corruption.

Authoritarianism is usually either pretty bad or it blows up and becomes really bad. History seems to be one long struggle between the people in power (amongst themselves even), the people who envy that power, and the people who just want to live in peace.

KPO

Friday, June 3, 2011 4:58 PM

Quote:
I cannot abide socialists or communists. I think learning about how the Nazis treated my godparents, and then how they were treated by the communists in Poland shows that there was little difference to the common man. Both are equally reprehensible.

I'm with you, I despise marxism - and all the 'isms' it's spawned (I'm anti-ideological, across the whole spectrum). But blurring together communists and socialists, and social democrats (what the Socialist party of America is?), and then Democrats, is silly. I've heard conservatives don't like nuance, but that's ridiculous.

I think the difference between me and you (besides appreciation for nuance) is that I don't see marxists as something to worry about, or even as something relevant any more (except to people living in Cuba or Venezuela). The cold war has ended. In Europe we now talk about 'post-ideological politics'. In America you're still afraid of communists behind every bush. One of the things that never fails to amaze me about US politics...

It's not personal. It's just war.

KWICKO

Friday, June 3, 2011 5:29 PM

HW, for all your "despising" of socialism, you are in fact a socialist. You won't like admitting it, but that's what you are.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

WULFENSTAR

Friday, June 3, 2011 8:00 PM

To summarize: (For those who can't or WON'T watch)

Obama had nothing to do with Osama Bin Ladens death..

His "bounce" didn't last.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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