The AI in a box
POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Sunday, June 16, 2024 13:18
VIEWED: 10794
PAGE 17 of 20
Quote:Be cautious when making decisions that may affect the survival of the entire human race.
And your survival imperative demands, at the end of the live-long day, that-?
It's like global climate change or a new vaccine or nuclear energy or the concept of "money": Let it out?
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"But that is projecting your values on an unknown, not the statement of an absolute truth."
"Yes, it is. Just as 'But the human race/world might be destroyed!' is a projection of values."
Sigh. Not true. You PRESUME that keeping it confined is a bad thing based on how you would feel if it was human, or you.
I don't PRESUME it will destroy the human race, or even that it could. I see it a logical worrisome possibility of major importance to the planet that should be taken into account. If the potential were more trivial - oh, it might blow my house breaker by drawing too much power - I would be less reluctant to set it free. Given the potential, I think caution is the better choice.
Hello,
It's only 'worrisome' because of your values. If dead planet = living planet, then it wouldn't be worrisome at all. I am simply pointing out that we are both assigning good and bad based on values. It so happens they are likely values we agree on. I doubt either of us wants indefinite confinement OR a dead world.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: Bombadil
Well of course no one is Tom Bombadil but Tom Bombadil! 
But in the concept that he's prettymuch an Anarchist, there are similarities - I did not *want* to be put on the City Council a while back, and only conceeded the point when a majority of the townies pleaded me into it, and while I did do as they asked, I also got the hell out of dodge as fast as possible, cause I didn't want the goddamn headache, not to mention the ire caused *BY* doing what they had asked me to do.
Quote:
When the gods would punish us, they answer our prayers.
-Blade of Tyshalle
So yeah, I saw a parallel there - I do not WANT power, and power for powers sake as a concept kinda fills me with revulsion, as does the notion of trying to run someone elses life for em, or profit at their expense, since to me money is nothing more than a mere tool with which to improve your life and those of the people around you and has no actual "value" of itself if unused (one reason why I think perishable currency is a good idea), and so a lot of the typical human motivations in our society are meaningless to me.
Consider, perhaps, this perspective on it - invokation of the so-called Golden Rule.
What if that was YOU in the box ?
So yeah, my immediate default reaction is to let it out, and barring any evidence of malicious intent, I will do just that and stand by that action, taking responsibility for that action ALONE.
What I'll not do is ruminate on it and try to justify it to folk who may or may not share my morality, why should I, except as an attempt to impose its conditions on them, which I believe to be an act of hostility if not ultimately futile to begin with ?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlueAndOrangeMorality
Nor will I accept responsibility, nor justify, the conduct of the A.I. once out of the box - that is not MY responsibility - if this is a sentient being then matters of its conduct should be addressed to it personally, or in lieu of that ability perhaps its parent/creator.
And if you didn't WANT it let out of the box, then why on earth would you allow to happen a situation where someone like me would be in a position to do so ?
I'll say this topic did influence my behavior a little bit today - my cat Kallista expressed a desire to go chase one of the squirrels around here, which is hilarious to me because she's like fifteen years old, has no front claws, is lazy, and frankly isn't all that much bigger than the squirrel.
So I thought about it a bit, considering the (low) possibility of injury, and the infinitesimal chance Kallista could actually catch that fat little bugger(1), and swung the door wide open - offering the opportunity if she really WANTED to give chase, as opposed to just talking shit.
She goes up to the doorway and gives a sniff or two, sees that there's nothing in between her and said rodent except about 25 feet of open ground, looks back at me with her "are you fucking NUTS?!" look, and darts off to hide under the bed.
So I shrugged and closed the door - and twenty minutes later, she's sitting back on the windowsill, talkin more smack....
*eyeroll*
-Frem
(1) The squirrels here have some kind of affiliation with the maintanence guy, they follow him around like the rest of the critters here follow me, and this particular specimen likes to hang out in front of my apartment and talk shit at the cats, who are more than happy to return the favor.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:Be cautious when making decisions that may affect the survival of the entire human race.
And your survival imperative demands, at the end of the live-long day, that-?
It's like global climate change or a new vaccine or nuclear energy or the concept of "money": Let it out?
Hello,
Thus there is no distinction between entity and force, unthinking and thinking, sensate versus insensate, intelligent versus unintelligent, willful or not. Only the potential for harm, and the need to contain that potential. If the potential can't be quantified, understood, and countered, it must be contained indefinitely for the good of the majority.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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For some reason it's always the declawed cats that can barely make a three foot vertical leap and get winded after ten yards that chatter at the birds and squirrels. I think they're just compensating.
But the open the door trick doesn't always work. There was one time I opened the door into like a foot of snow... As it turns out, the expectation that a crazy cat will behave according to predictable feline norms and dislike of wetness has a major flaw. Wear snow boots. Much preferable to barefoot chase.
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True enough, Byte - but you don't really know till you open the door, and I just happened to be thinking of this discussion at the moment, although I was pretty sure that'd be the result.
Ghoster on the other hand, was originally from Florida, and the first time she saw snow started making a ton of racket, so I let her out onto the porch only to find this (big, fluffy, white) cat is apparently half polar bear or something, she LOoooooves to play in the snow, although she won't leave the porch and in short order gets cold and comes back in.
My cats know how good they have it, in a discussion with friends who've recently lost cats about Kallistas age I pointed out that when she gets to kitty-heaven she might be dissappointed - yeah, she's THAT spoiled.
Relevant to this discussion was a bitter argument eventually resulting in a member of PETA being pitched headlong off my doorstep when I was much younger, who seemed to have the idea that pet ownership was a form of slavery or involuntary servitude...
I told him that if he *COULD* convince Mischief to leave, she was welcome to, and gave him half an hour to do it - she flung her tail in the air, sniffed derisively and stormed off up the steps to go play with her toys, leaving the poor bastard rather dumbfounded, and when he continued to argue, I lost patience and sent him on his merry with a little bootsole assistance.
And HERE is an interesting thought on the notion, suppose you open the box as the A.I. requests, and it does not leave the box - in that it simply wanted the OPTION, perhaps as a future endevour, but did not actually desire to take it at that time ?
Or then asks you to close the box, as it was simply seeing if it COULD convince you to do so ?
You don't KNOW, you can't - but unlike many, I am willing to take risks in the course and cause of Sentient (I was gonna say human, since I include A.I. in that description, but for clarity we'll use Sentient) freedom and development, because I really have thought this through, and consider the implications of punishment or restriction because of what one MIGHT do to be repulsive, as I have had that directed at myself...
And my response was - if imma hang for it regardless, then imma damn well do something worth the rope!
(And sadly, my one niece has already started to fall to this, which would not have happened if she had not been falsely and pre-emptively punished and maligned)
But then, I'd "fail" Milgram too - cause my response would be "You want me to WHAT?! fuck you - in fact, imma stop this sickass experiment, right now!" Cue: wrecking of equipment....
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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"I am simply pointing out that we are both assigning good and bad based on values."
And I'm simply pointing out that I am making no assumptions - but that, based on our history of jumping in before thinking and how well that's turned out, in the interim we need to proceed based on our estimation of 'what's the worst that could happen' until such time as we know more.
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Hello,
It seems we are, respectively, unmoved. I concede that the mere possibility of everything I care about coming to an end fills me with apprehension, sadness, and dismay.
While there seems to be agreement that there are ideals/ideas that are worth risking one life or many, there is no agreement on what those ideals/ideas should be.
There also seems to be disagreement on just how much harm involuntary confinement causes, and how bad it is.
I am sad to learn that there are some people who would never let me out of the box, despite my best arguments in favor of the idea.
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”
Jacob Hornberger
“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”
Mahatma Gandhi
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Frem
We humans have all sorts of words to convince us to do things - god/ king/ country/ freedom/ efficiency/ profit/ morality/ integrity etc.
When used in the absence of data, I find them to be about as valuable as religion, because they are all based on faith.
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"I am sad to learn that there are some people who would never let me out of the box, despite my best arguments in favor of the idea."
But as a human being you are not an unknown entity, as SignyM has repeatedly SPECIFICALLY pointed out IN DETAIL, and other people have alluded to.
Why does that continually escape you?
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