Real World Event Discussions

Legislators quick to limit Free Speech to protect Grieving Families

POSTED BY: AnthonyT
UPDATED: Monday, January 24, 2011 02:36
VIEWED: 6327
PAGE 6 of 9

ANTHONYT

Friday, January 21, 2011 2:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
There is a caveat of private property. You'd have to perform these activities on public lands.
Yes, thank you for bringing this up.

If you protest on the public sidewalk outside my house or the church, there are no laws to stop you.

You can also protest on your own private land.

I once saw a picture of a sign posted in one guy's front yard. It had an arrow pointing to his neighbor's house, and said, "I own guns. My neighbor believes in gun control and does not own any guns."

Many people found that sign dangerous and abusive. But there are no laws to make him take it down.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Hello,

I can see it now.

"My neighbor owns guns. He is not home between the hours of 8AM and 5PM on Weekdays, and spends his weekends Fishing at his fishing lodge."

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, January 21, 2011 3:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"My neighbor owns guns. He is not home between the hours of 8AM and 5PM on Weekdays, and spends his weekends Fishing at his fishing lodge."

LOL.

Ouch. Remind me not to cross you, Anthony.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Fact is tyranny doesn't normally happen with a slippery slope, it happens with violent overthrow, military coups,invasion, revolution.
Tell that to the Germans who lived through the Third Reich.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Nazi_Germany

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

Fact is tyranny CAN happen with a slippery slope.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

You think the Third Reich happened kind of slowly and comfortably??????? That Germany was a nice stable country that suddenly introduced a bit too much legislation?

The situation for Germany in the early part of the 20th century was that it was a country of chaos and upheavel. They had lived through a a war that they lost, where millions died; their system of government collapsed; as a result of the Treaty of Versaille and the Great Depression, their economy completely totally collapsed. Not to forget the effect of the death toll from the Spanish flu.

There was basically a civil war for years between the right and left factions in Germany for control of the country.

Germany was classically ripe for tyranny given these conditions. It was never that a madman got his hands on the country, it would have be another madman if it wasn't Hitler.

Not a slippery slope as far as I can see, but a freefall.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So lets say that I was to camp outside your house with a placard that says 'a stupid, fucking bitch lives here' because I really disagree with a lot of your beliefs. Wouldn't you have any legal recourse to remove me?
No.

Quote:
if I was to go to a church service, with 50 or so of my atheist buddies, and chant and march around with placards that said 'all christians are morons', there would be nothing the congregation could do to stop us?
No.

Quote:
If I was to visit Washington, stop off at the whitehouse and do a big crap out the front,
There you run into health regulations, so yes, they can stop this.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

Hello,

There is a caveat of private property. You'd have to perform these activities on public lands.

I'd also add the caveat of preserving the ability to pass through the lands being protested upon. Protestation should not be used to trap people in an area.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

Oh I'd be doing it on public land, just outside of your house.

You see I find it hard to believe that you'd have no legal recourse in these matters, because I know that you have restraining orders and I know that you have harrassment and stalking laws. I know you have laws about protesting. They may vary from state to state but they exist.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Fact is tyranny doesn't normally happen with a slippery slope, it happens with violent overthrow, military coups,invasion, revolution. It happens in places where there is already chaos and lawlessness. It doesn't normally come to pass where people wake up and say, 'hey, we're living in a police state and I never noticed'."

Hello,

The lessons of my ancestors are that both kinds of tyranny are possible and do happen.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

What slippery slope did they have? I thought your ancestors overthrew their British rulers. A monarchy was not a system of government that resulted from a slippery slope, in fact you might say conversely that democracy is more of a slippery slope that tyranny is.

I think your ancestors were concerned that having devolved powers, they might end up have it concentrate again. Quite rightly as well, because post revolution one of the things that tended to happen was a return to the old system or something similiar ie Ol Oliver Cromwell and the subsequent Reformation.

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You see I find it hard to believe that you'd have no legal recourse in these matters, because I know that you have restraining orders and I know that you have harrassment and stalking laws.

Those laws would only apply if you protested me more than once.

Can't Take (my gorram) Sky
------
Everything I say is just my opinion, not fact.

NIKI2

Friday, January 21, 2011 10:34 PM

I agree with what Magons said about tyranny, and that the Third Reich is a bad example:

Quote:
The situation for Germany in the early part of the 20th century was that it was a country of chaos and upheavel. They had lived through a a war that they lost, where millions died; their system of government collapsed; as a result of the Treaty of Versaille and the Great Depression, their economy completely totally collapsed. Not to forget the effect of the death toll from the Spanish flu.

There was basically a civil war for years between the right and left factions in Germany for control of the country.

Germany was classically ripe for tyranny given these conditions. It was never that a madman got his hands on the country, it would have be another madman if it wasn't Hitler.

One of the reasons I think those in America who advocate (if they’re even serious and not just blathering candidates) revolution would end up getting something WORSE than what they are unhappy with.

Good point, too, Magons, in that we DO have

Quote:
restraining orders and I know that you have harrassment and stalking laws

So all speech isn't necessarily "free". We also have libel laws, and more.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

ANTHONYT

Saturday, January 22, 2011 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Fact is tyranny doesn't normally happen with a slippery slope, it happens with violent overthrow, military coups,invasion, revolution. It happens in places where there is already chaos and lawlessness. It doesn't normally come to pass where people wake up and say, 'hey, we're living in a police state and I never noticed'."

Hello,

The lessons of my ancestors are that both kinds of tyranny are possible and do happen.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

What slippery slope did they have? I thought your ancestors overthrew their British rulers. A monarchy was not a system of government that resulted from a slippery slope, in fact you might say conversely that democracy is more of a slippery slope that tyranny is.

I think your ancestors were concerned that having devolved powers, they might end up have it concentrate again. Quite rightly as well, because post revolution one of the things that tended to happen was a return to the old system or something similiar ie Ol Oliver Cromwell and the subsequent Reformation.

Hello,

I am the first generation of my family to be born in the United States. My ancestors are Cuban and Spanish.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Fact is tyranny doesn't normally happen with a slippery slope, it happens with violent overthrow, military coups,invasion, revolution. It happens in places where there is already chaos and lawlessness. It doesn't normally come to pass where people wake up and say, 'hey, we're living in a police state and I never noticed'."

Hello,

The lessons of my ancestors are that both kinds of tyranny are possible and do happen.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

What slippery slope did they have? I thought your ancestors overthrew their British rulers. A monarchy was not a system of government that resulted from a slippery slope, in fact you might say conversely that democracy is more of a slippery slope that tyranny is.

I think your ancestors were concerned that having devolved powers, they might end up have it concentrate again. Quite rightly as well, because post revolution one of the things that tended to happen was a return to the old system or something similiar ie Ol Oliver Cromwell and the subsequent Reformation.

Hello,

I am the first generation of my family to be born in the United States. My ancestors are Cuban and Spanish.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.

Sorry for making assumptions.

And not knowing a whole lot about those parts of the world, apart from once holidaying in Spain (yay for tapas and sangria), haven't both those countries been involved in civil wars and/or revolutions prior to their fascist/communist governments? Which was my initial point about not being part of a slippery slope.

It's also my understanding that neither country could be considered a paradigm of democratic values prior to civil war/revolution.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, January 22, 2011 5:33 AM

Hello,

Quite frankly, I think most every country I can think of has had a revolution at some point prior to its current form of government.

However, the post-revolution government is often not instantly tyrannical. There is sometimes a period of stability and improved quality of life. Things turn. Conditions decline by inches, then yards. Eventually people wake up one morning and find conditions no longer tolerable. It wasn't like this on day 1. But on day 1000 you can't remember why you ever thought you could live like this. But it wasn't always like this. It used to be better. It can be better again.

Enough people feel this way, and you get another revolution. Sometimes the new boss is instantly tyrannical and horrible. Sometimes he's just fine. And then things start to slide.

Both situations exist in the history of my people. Revolutions with instant tyrants, and revolutions that give improved, stable government where situations gradually deteriorate until the people will no longer tolerate it.

I'd like to say the current government of Spain will be stable, prosperous, and avoid this path. However, like the United States, the current government is too young for any determination about its long-term health to be practical.

I am glad you are pleased with the development of your own young nation, and do not see the likelihood of this kind of deterioration into tyranny where you live.

--Anthony

Assured by friends that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved on this forum, I have disabled web filtering.