The Irony of Islamophobia...The rational man's irrational fear...
POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Saturday, September 11, 2010 01:12
VIEWED: 4480
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Jong,
do you think all mosques teach the same things?
How many different versions of Christianity are there?
...................
Personally I'm an atheist...well, agnostic officially, and it's all unverifiable bullshit to me, but it seems to me that the more economically stable a people become the less crazy their religion becomes. The more you have to lose the less you are willing to lose it, the less you're willing to gamble on an uncertain after-life over the things you have.
I tend to think of the people who use these desperate people as not nearly as crazy...they have more to lose, and they aren't the ones strapping bombs to their chests and blowing up synagogues. They have an agenda that is tangible. They may believe in their god, they may believe whatever makes them feel good about what they're doing, but they're working on a whole different level.
And people have an will continue to use Christianity in the same way, but there was just a lot more money in it to change with the times. It's not like it hasn't been in its most established brands, incredibly regressive for the most part. In-spite of that though, the christian churches have evolved to accomodate a culture that would not have let them survive otherwise. This is not to suggest that there are never christian movements that are in favor of good things. There was a christian movement in favor of emancipation before the civil war...
but big churches are usually just trying to keep as much power as they can, appeasing the status quo as much as they can. that status quo has been slavery, converting and killing native americans, crusades, witch burnings, lutheran killings, catholic killings...etc. etc. depending on the time and the place.
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
They have been doing it for hundreds of years in the name of their FUCKING god...read what I just wrote, again, once more. In the name of GOD.
So did Christians for centuries. They outgrew it. It can happen again.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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just to piggy back on my own thought here,
there have been progressive movements in countries like Iran, because education has improved, because economics have improved. In that kind of movement, should it win, and eventually it would, the religion of the region would have to become less opressive.
Of course we do no favors to such causes when we invade Iraq, and call our actions a "crusade." I wonder which power base that strengthens...
to say nothing of the carnage and turmoil that makes so many people more desperate, and more susceptible to a message of hate and vengeance. This in a country that was secular. Yes, yes, it had a vicious heartless dictator who had people executed all over the place...but at least it was only if they got in his way...
if the region was ripe for extremist religion before, it's a garden of insanity now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Commands that drinkers and gamblers should be whipped;
Allows husbands to hit their wives;
Allows an injured plaintiff to exact legal revenge – literally an eye for an eye;
Commands that a thief must have a hand cut off;
Commands that homosexuals must be executed;
Orders unmarried fornicators to be whipped and adulterers to be stoned to death;
Orders death for both Muslim and non-Muslim critics of Mohammad, the Qur’an and even Shari’a itself;
Orders apostates to be killed;
Commands offensive, aggressive and unjust Jihad.
And the Christian bible demands the deaths of adulterers, homosexuals, people who work on Sunday, and anyone who eats lobster.
Both religions have a whole lot of really really stupid rules.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
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I don't understand how anyone could use the bible to justify violence, unless of course they don't read it. The old testament has its share of scary moments, but Jesus came and made things right an' shiney! I don't see how it's possible to convince folk to commit violence in the name of Jesus unless they were unable to read about him on their own, which was likely the case in the crusades, Bible being in latin and all.
I can't speak for muslims or terrorist of course, but I would hazard a guess that the more violent ones don't read or interpret their holy book for themselves.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Personally I'm an atheist...well, agnostic officially, and it's all unverifiable bullshit to me,
Unverifiable bullshit? I guess you weren't paying attention when Shepherd Book explained about religion and faith to River.
Quote:
but big churches are usually just trying to keep as much power as they can, appeasing the status quo as much as they can. that status quo has been slavery, converting and killing native americans, crusades, witch burnings, lutheran killings, catholic killings...etc. etc. depending on the time and the place
The past is prologue. I live in the present. I've gone to church for many decades, and no one has ever advocated any of the things you cited. You cannot draw moral equivalencies to how our ancestors behaved in the past to our modern sensibilities. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, FDR interned Japanese Americans. We've grown and learned from our mistakes of the past. Has Islam?
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And the Christian bible demands the deaths of adulterers, homosexuals, people who work on Sunday, and anyone who eats lobster.
Both religions have a whole lot of really really stupid rules.
"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
Uh, unless we ignore what Jesus said (which I assumed was supposed to be the most important part of the Christian Bible, after all Christian is supposed to mean Christ-like) I'm pretty sure Christians ain't commanded to kill anyone, quite the opposite. It's more like, save who ya can and leave God to deal judgment. Remember that whole "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" thing? Not our place to deal "God's judgement" on his behalf.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And the Christian bible demands the deaths of adulterers, homosexuals, people who work on Sunday,
Really? What modern Christian nations today are killing homosexuals? European countries? America? I must have missed those stories.
But they are whipping, stoning, and hanging people throughout the Islamic world though for that "crime."
Also, why do you and others here feel you have to denigrate Christianity to explain or justify the horrors of modern-day Islamic Fundamentalism? Stick to the subject, we're talking about Islam here. You should never point out other's bad behavior as an excuse for yours.
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I already said that Christianity has been modulated, and my point was the why of it.
you're trying to make islam its own special isolated circumstance...
I'm saying its as regressive as it is because it has thrived in a region that has for the most part remained a third world, impoverished culture. This is of course a chicken and the egg issue, in that the religion is partly responsible for that.
I would also argue, and if you haven't been listening to any rhettoric from some christians these days, maybe you've just missed it, that should we reenter third world status, we would certainly see more of the uglier side of "christian" potential.
Actually I don't see christians as bad, any more than I see muslims as bad, or people in general. I'm not trying to shit on christianity aside from my point that I think none of it is verifiable and is thus hard for me to take rationally. What I'm saying is that people are people, and people become more susceptible to extreme messages when they are more desperate. Religions(all of them), like governments, attract people who would happily use that desperation for their own gain, and having boogy men to channel outrage and even violence is also quite handy...especially if those boogy-men are in the way of your own domination.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So your response to killing in the name of god, is to...
... kill, in the name of YOUR god.
And you don't even see they idiocy in that equation.
When have I ever said kill them in the name of god? where do you get this shit? I say defend ourselves and do not minimalize the threat behind limp-wristed liberal "all is lovey dovey" ideologue.....no mention of god here. Kill them in the name of family and country.....just one girl's opinion
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