Obama Paradox
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Thursday, July 29, 2010 03:01
VIEWED: 5873
PAGE 3 of 7
The Tea Party has contributed to the divide in this country, the extremism that has encouraged other extremism, and is being used by the GOP and the right to inflame people FURTHER against the government.
If the Republicans were doing their job, and working for us (as much as they ever have), we could improve things. They are being pulled even further to the right by the Tea Party, being encouraged to stalemate everything even more, and so nothing can be accomplished to improve things.
Healtcare COULD have been good. Financial reform COULD have been good. But they ended up being watered down so much that they are virtually gimmes to those they were intended to restrain. If the Republicans had worked to help make them better, they would be better.
The further to the right the Tea Party pushes the Republicans, the more disention in this country, the less things improve. The Tea Party followers are being tricked into acting against their own welfare, to think in absolutes. The government isn't "tyrannical" except in WulfWorld...nor is it "imperial". That it has too much power is indisputable, but those are buzz words I don't accept; you are, without a doubt, the most prefect exampled on this forum of Tea Party mentality; unrealistic, unyielding, uncompromising, filled with buzz words, and more than willing to parrot every taking point that's been fed to you. Your posts are full of it, and as such, you represent perfectly the Tea Party mentality; the idea of black and white, good guys and bad guys, "heroes", "villains"...and none of it is related to reality or to making things work.
It is for that which I blame the Tea Party. For brainwashing people and using them; and trust me, they will discard you just as soon as they get in office, except for the wingnuts they've managed to win the primaries, who won't make it in the generals.
The Tea Party wants to go back 100 years, or more. They want "their" America back. Aside from being unrealistic, wanting literacy tests and other Jim Crow things back isn't something I admire. They say they want the Constitution followed, but they don't really; there are many examples of what they "want" being diametrically opposed to the Constitution. They want things to be the way THEY want, irregardless of the rest of society.
Someday maybe you'll see. Or not. Unfortunately there are too many like you, it's not helping.
I don't know where YOU were, Crappy, but Quote:
isn't what happened. They DISRUPTED town hall meetings and didn't ALLOW people to ask sincere and honest questions of their reps; that was the most infuriating thing about it. Town halls are a good thing, pertinent and probing questions SHOULD be asked, but none of that happened, instead people hollered and shouted and threw insults and threats. They were INSTRUCTED to do just that by their leaders. Like I said, I don't know where YOU were...if anywhere, no doubt at town hall meetings on the RIGHT, which were probably quite reasonable.
attending town hall meetings, asking sincere and honest questions of their Representatives
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off
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Quote:
A LOT more at http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62H2YW20100318 group of white middle class conservatives, are in a collective mood feeling disgruntled and disillusioned by the way the government is working. They feel that those in their government are only looking out for themselves and not the people, this is a sentiment shared people all over the political spectrum. The Tea Partiers, in their disgruntled state have proved themselves susceptible to those looking to take advantage of them, the worst offenders being; Glenn Beck and his crazed rants as well as Sarah Palin and her petty brain dead talking points. Thanks to these people the Tea Party has been manipulated into thinking that all those who did not fit into their mold of a hardcore conservative are responsible for all the nations ills, disregarding the fact that diverse ideals are part of what makes are nation great.
Of the possible challenges ahead for the Tea Party movement the two main ones are not from the left, but from the right.
The first comes from social conservatives, or the religious right. The Tea Party movement is dominated by fiscal conservatives and leaders like Eric Odom of the American Liberty Alliance, who say social issues like abortion and gay marriage should be avoided.
When asked about abortion, for instance, Tina Dupont of the Tea Party of West Michigan says the group does not discuss it. "Most of us are probably pro-lifers," she said. "But we avoid the topic because it is so divisive."
This has been noted by some on the religious right. "At the national level you have people saying it is all about fiscal issues and not about social issues because they say they are divisive," said Tony Perkins, president of Christian lobby group the Family Research Council.
Chris Merrill said while Tea Partiers can avoid divisive issues at meetings, they cannot if they run for office. "Running a campaign is different," he said. "At some point they have to take a stand on social issues."
Some say a showdown between social and fiscal conservative groups may be inevitable. "Fiscal conservatives want to limit the size of government, social conservatives want to use government to further their agenda," Henson said. "That will likely cause problems."
(this from an op-ed about the Captain America/Tea Party fuss, at http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-30115-Atlanta-Comic-Books-Examiner~
y2010m2d12-OpEd-Captain-America-and-the-Tea-Party Quote:
Such is the zeal in portions of the “tea party” that it is not enough to sweep out living members of the establishment, such as U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. A brisk, ideological scrubbing must be applied to history as well.
So, Glenn Beck, speaking at the Conservative Political Action Conference this month, identified a great enemy of human freedom as ... Teddy Roosevelt. Beck highlighted this damning quote of the occupant of the Oval Office in 1901-1909: “We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used.”
You don’t discern the scandal in this statement? Look closer. “This is not our Founders’ idea of America,” explains Beck. “And this is the cancer that’s eating at America. It is big government — it’s a socialist utopia.”
Evidently, Beck believes “real” conservatives defend wealth that is dishonorably gained and then wasted.
TR picked a number of fights with conservative Republicans, fight-picking being his favorite sport. But, he was a Republican who hated socialism. “It would spell sheer destruction,” he said. “It would produce grosser wrong and outrage, fouler immorality, than any existing system.”
Modern corporate capitalism, he believed, was inevitable, even admirable. He also believed that overly centralized and unaccountable power in a capitalist system creates destructive clashes of labor and capital, rich and poor. So, he busted monopolistic trusts, imposed health standards on filthy meat-packing plants and promoted a more professional, merit-based ci
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Quote:
Oh, give it up, Wulf...you’re only a hero in your own mind; you have no concept what REAL revolution would do, and it would be horrific.
Well, we will see how it works.
There are always other ways.
As toQuote:
Uhhh, you are forgetting, it was the RIGHT who started all those things, with the approval and applause of the Republicans (bear in mind that it was we liberals who were out there protesting them from the start--and we still want them ended)... You’re also forgetting that Obama is the one who has put DEADLINES on those, while “your” candidate, McCain, wanted Iraq to continue for, what was it, 100 years? You think HE’d have done away with the Patriot Act? Wasn’t he in favor of Gitmo?
The Patriot Act?
Do we want comtinie the wars in Afghanistand and Iraq?
GitMo?
Crappy: “ever expanding , free spending”—so where were they when Dumbya was in office, doing comparatively twice as much of that as Obama is doing?
Don’t come back at me with “Stop blaming Bush”; the fact is Dumbya DID create the Patriot Act, Gitmo, START those two wars then ignore Afghanistan so it’s the problem it is today, expand government and the deficit incredibly (just look at our “intelligence” branch...I use the term advisedly), spent like a drunken sailor (hiding the cost of the wars as well), gave tax cuts that widened the gap between rich and poor; PUT US WHERE WE WERE when Obama took over. That you want Obama to “fix” everything immediately that it took Dumbya eight years to put in place is unrealistic. He’s not doing it fast enough for anyone, or ENOUGH for anyone, but that doesn’t change the reality of how it came to be.
I realize none of this means anything to you, they're not the proper "talking points" so they'll be refuted or ignored. Ergo; have fun, I'm off to dinner. I'm sure you will happily agree with each other forever, and anything done by this administration will be the "tyranny of President Barack Hussein Hitler". It's pretty much as I assumed this thread would turn out. At least I tried to introduce some perspective.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of __________________, code name ‘Nike”,
signing off
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Nix,
Uh huh.
Well, bring on FFF.net 2.0
We cant learn anything from each other so we might as well sit in a circle congratulating other like minded folks on their wonderful revomiting of our own opinions.
Or, in other words, we are so intrenched in our own world view that challanging it threatens our self-esteem and by doing so causes us to retreat into our own delusional world view. Not that I havnt been guilty of it from time to time of course.
"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
The Tea Party people deserve the blame for standing up against a tyranical government, and doing it in the most democratic way, while allowing for their identities to be known.
Silly them. Trying to affect change in a non-violent way.
Well, we will see how it works.
There are always other ways.
"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."
I'm sorry, but the little children's games played by you tea-bagging scum ("We came unarmed - THIS TIME!") just really gets old. And the BS of going, "Hey we tried non-violent change, but remember - there ARE other ways!", really IS a form of violence. After all, if you rob someone by putting your gun in their face and demanding they comply, and you DON'T shoot them, it's still considered armed robbery. And if you threaten them while you're doing it, other charges will apply.
So knock it off already, Wulfie - we all see clearly what you're trying to do. You're trying to intimidate with your childish little veiled threats. Only we're not threatened by you; not even a little bit. Go sell your brand of crazy somewhere else; we ain't buyin'.
"Being called a Liberal by a racist is a badge of honor."
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The Tea Parties deserves [sic] the "blame" for daring to stand up to the ever expanding , free spending , hyper taxing Imperial Federal Gov't.
I'm still wondering where all you tea-baggers were while the rest of us were out there protesting those things under YOUR imperial lord and savior Bush. I definitely didn't see you there.
Quote:
The Tea Party deserves the "blame" for attending town hall meetings, asking sincere and honest questions of their Representatives, and daring to not be treated like little children by over paid, glorified public servants.
Yeah, they were SO respectful and sincere at those town hall meetings... ;)
Oh, wait - no, they weren't. And you know it.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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Aww Kwick.. are we bothering you? Ok.
We'll stop trying to make things better. For you.
You poor thing. It must be tough. People have woken up and really, REALLY dont like your "savior".
Its tough for hard core liberalistas right now... I sympathize. I really do.
People arnt buying the whole government being your parent thingy... and its driving those who desperatly WANT the government to be their parent.... mad.
There there little one. You might, just MIGHT, have to grow up if we finally win.
But thats ok.
You can do it!
HUZZAH!
"Being called a racist by a Liberal is a badge of honor."
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"I'm still wondering where all you tea-baggers were while the rest of us were out there protesting those things under YOUR imperial lord and savior Bush. I definitely didn't see you there."
Hello,
To be fair... *raises hand* I was here. Back when they were largely Libertarian. Ron Paul jumped to Republican, and a lot of us switched cards to follow him. The Ron Paul rEVOLution. With LOVE as its central theme. A powerful movement made powerful due to a backlash against the infringement of freedoms under the Bush administration.
But Ron Paul didn't win, and the movement seems to have lost a lot of the LOVE. It seems so angry, now. I feel like the Republicans purchased it. It doesn't feel the same today as it did in 2007-2008. It's bigger, but it's also less happy. Despite the major party financing and support, the Tea Party feels poorer.
--Anthony
P.S. Any chance we can cut out the tea-bagger stuff? Slapping folks who are already polarized isn't gonna mellow 'em out.
Due to the use of Naomi 3.3.2 Beta web filtering, the following people may need to private-message me if they wish to contact me: Auraptor, Kaneman, Piratenews. I apologize for the inconvenience.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Aww Kwick.. are we bothering you? Ok.
We'll stop trying to make things better. For you.
I'm sorry you think your dear and fluffy lord and savior Bush made things better for ANYONE, at least anyone who doesn't earn more than $250,000 a year.
Quote:
You poor thing. It must be tough. People have woken up and really, REALLY dont like your "savior".
Its tough for hard core liberalistas right now... I sympathize. I really do.
People arnt buying the whole government being your parent thingy... and its driving those who desperatly WANT the government to be their parent.... mad.
Is that what's eating you? Is that what you were raving about the other night, with all your "you owe me" blather? Do you REALLY want the government to be your mommy? I know you had a shitty childhood and shitty parents, but has it really driven you mad?
Quote:
There there little one. You might, just MIGHT, have to grow up if we finally win.
Y'know, YOU just might have to grow up, too. Ever think about that? No more playing little toy soldier anymore, tin man.
AURaptor's Greatest Hits:
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.
Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.
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this talking point on the left to blame "Dumbya" for this abysmal, non existent 'recovery' just isn't holding water anymore. Obama isn't cleaning up any mess that the democrats weren't also equally responsable for. the democrats have had majorities in the house and senate for 4 years, and total control for almost 2 years now. not coincidentally, the deficits have exploded exponentially since then(although in conjunction with liberal republicans). but just under the current president, the trillion dollar stimulus was a failure, the healthcare bill is a nightmare, and financial reform and cap and trade will all be huge tax increases on everybody. and the Bush tax cuts expire soon, on top of everything. in other words, we've basically turned a crash, similar to '29, into what will become a another 15 year long great depression. and, just as it was then, this is the fault of flawed economic theories, wich will result in the same predictable outcome. so because i fundementally disagree with the agenda of the current party in power, i don't see a whole lot to be praiseworthy about towards president Obama and the dems
if he was a libertarian, as charasmatic a person as he is, you want to like him- he could be one of the greatest presidents in modern history. and how oppertune a time, when we need his abilities of persuasion and charisma to advocate the principles liberty. you notice he never talks about these concepts though.. he truly believes in a command and control, top down centralized society. and you just cant run peoples lives, in will never work
about the surpluses under Clinton, does any of that credit go to the republican party, who took control of the house and senate for the first time in 20-30 years? it was a generation of Reagan era conservatives who did that. eventually the power corrupted them though, and they became socially conservative liberals. but when Bush was elected in 2000, republicans had an oppertunity to decentralize this top heavy authoritarian government, purge the beauracracy and return back to classical laissez faire capitalism, and they blew it! and this perception among the left of massive deregulation during this period, what are you talking about? in fact, what regulations were put in place, such as in housing and banking, turned out to be counterproductive and harmful to the economy, as evidenced by our current situation.
and on the Bush tax cuts, if they were indeed only for the super rich, which is untrue but the common myth among the left, what is the left admitting is wrong with that? its an admission in premise that a tax cut is a benefit to people. why then does the left demonize the Bush tax cuts, which benefit a broad range of people of all tax and income brackets? or, why not propose tax cuts greater then 'Bushs'? i dont get it.. and out of pure partisanship you will let them expire, and punish everyone. but if you think letting these cuts expire will result in greater revenues to the federal government(maybe in hopes to pay off this massive deficit), you've got an important lesson in economics coming to you
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