Spike has been lying for two years

POSTED BY: Knibblet
UPDATED: Thursday, April 8, 2004 01:12
VIEWED: 7572
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MAUGWAI

Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:57 AM

Is my previous post invisible? I didn't make it up or anything, I swear. It was an interview in a magazine.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

IDEFIX

Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
??? Buffy/Giles fans???!!!??? You mean old crusty guys near 40 (like me) have a chance with teen age girls??? Yeeeaaa well, I will just walk away from that one.

not all of them but some. someone on the "WatcherGirls" yahoogroups said a few days back: "There are men who, like fine red wine, only improve with age. Anthony Stewart Head and Alexis Denisof are two of them."
and I tend to agree. but I'm not teenage any more. but neither is SMG.

for proof take a look at http://buffygiles.com/ or if you like it hot http://www.blastfurnace.org/ A. Manley Height is always worth reading.

Idefix

GHOULMAN

Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:04 PM

*Heh heh*, yea, I'm kidding but am I the only one really worried for any young girl on those websites? Man, it's funny being this age and 'fine wine'. It's true though... young girls are all over older guys like me.

... but in truth I had a crush on Willow.

ZORIAH

Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:30 AM

Ok first off, as we know Spike didn't need the chip out to hurt or kill Buffy. He could have killed her at anytime once he realised that the chip didn't work on her. Also it was definitely not his modus operandi to go after loved ones that was ANGELUS'S favored method of revenge. Spike when in a rage tended to fixate solely on his target. Like in Fool for Love - he knew it would hurt to try to kill Buffy but he didn't care, he took the shotgun to try. We have seen him work through the pain to hit Xander too when he had to get by him. The chip does not stop him from committing arson, running someone over, hiring demons to kill for him, exploding things etc. There is not one indication that he intended to harm anyone close to Buffy.

Yes he was angry, but in hindsight you can see the clues as to why. In his crypt he has flashbacks to that awful act, it's tearing him apart, he smashes a glass. He's angry at himself for doing the one thing he said he could/would never do: Hurt Buffy.

His conflict is that he is caught between being a monster and a man. He's a vampire, a demon - he should not be feeling love, he should not be feeling remorse for his actions. He shouldn't care about what he did, but he does.

He realises that he cannot give Buffy what she deserves. Not without a soul. This has been drummed into him all season, that he is filthy, unclean, he has no soul, how cna his love be real?, how can he understand what she is feeling, how can she trust a soulless demon?

Yes, he is angry and bitter and his love for Buffy, his weakness, as Lurky points out is the cause.

The writers tried to misdirect us, and even Spike goes on about how the chip is the problem. But if you examine the dialogue he never says he wants the chip out. After he completes the trials he demands what he came for and Lurky says "very well, we return your soul".

Besides the fact that Spike has never changed his story about wanting the soul, and everyone including sceptics like Xander, Giles and Angel have believed him (which is saying something isn't it?) - we also have 2 supernatural creatures who have talked about Spike's quest for a soul. The First taunted him in Lessons about Spike thinking getting the soul would have made a difference, that his intent to change for the better was fruitless:

MORPHING MONSTER (as THE MAYOR)
So what'd you think? You'd get your soul back and everything'd be Jim Dandy? Soul's slipperier than a greased weasel. Why do you think I sold mine? (laughs) Well, you probably thought that you'd be your own man, and I respect that, but...

MORPHING MONSTER (as THE MASTER)
Look at you. Trying to do what's right, just like her. You still don't get it.

And on AtS, in Hellbound - Parvayne also taunts him about his quest:

PAVAYNE (O.S.)
William the Bloody. Scourge and destroyer. But scratch the surface...

ARMLESS GHOST WOMAN
Little nancy, still crying for his mother.

PAVAYNE (O.S.)
Know all your hiddens, dirty red things you've done. Then fell in love. Won himself a soul. No more dirty things. Thinks himself special.

These beings are both trying to strip Spike down, destroy his resolve and convince him he's damned and will never be able to be good. Why would they do that if all along he had intended to be bad and get the chip out. And why not use his lie/intent to get the chip out not a soul against him then if that was the case? Souled beings can be bad, commit evil as we have seen with Faith, Warren and even Willow - and yet the First had to totally brainwash and trigger Spike to get him to kill again. Why not just go: Hey I know a way you can get back at those who have wronged you, I can get around the chip.....

All roads lead towards Spike having told the truth.

EMBERS

Sunday, April 4, 2004 11:58 AM

THANK YOU ZORIAH! Someone who actually listens to the dialogue!
Of course Spike could have killed Buffy with the chip in, besides he never said anything about killing Buffy...that is only in the fevered brains of Spike-haters (who never ever listen to dialogue for some reason).
Spike wanted to 'give Buffy what she deserved'
and obviosly in the Buffyverse, and in Spike's own lovelorn heart, Buffy deserved a man with a soul.

LIZ

Wednesday, April 7, 2004 8:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Is my previous post invisible? I didn't make it up or anything, I swear. It was an interview in a magazine.

You're not invisible. But... it's so much nicer to come up with the reasons for the characters and make the plot fit in their world, rather than having an actual solid answer.
Midrash, i guess.
If you have a link or a way to find that article that'd help too

EMBERS

Wednesday, April 7, 2004 8:16 PM

I saw your post, maugwai, but it was in direct opposition from interviews I have read...and besides it makes no sense: because obviously Spike COULD kill Buffy with the chip in...he knew he could, he had known it most of the year...
So either James mis-spoke or the interview was from season 4/5 when Spike DID want the chip out so he could kill Buffy.

LIZ

Wednesday, April 7, 2004 8:35 PM

maugwai, is this the interview you were referring to?
http://actionadventure.about.com/library/weekly/2002/aa062402.htm

MAUGWAI

Thursday, April 8, 2004 1:12 AM

Quote:
liz wrote:
Wednesday, April 07, 2004 10:35
maugwai, is this the interview you were referring to?
http://actionadventure.about.com/library/weekly/2002/aa062402.htm

That's very similar to what he said, but that's not the interview. I was reading it in print in Barnes and Noble after season six aired. I think it was in Buffy Magazine. I'm determined to find it now.

(ED: Okay, I gave up. You can't get any Buffy articles without paying for them.)

But that interview does sound like it must have come after whatever I read. Perhaps I stand corrected. Of course, that still doesn't clarify whether or not Joss meant to do that.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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